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markguycan


Jan 3, 2009, 8:30 AM
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bAD fIXED pRO
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What do you do when you come across some old and less than inspiring gear?

Share you rants, rationale or pics.


(This post was edited by markguycan on Jan 3, 2009, 12:58 PM)


johnwesely


Jan 3, 2009, 8:48 AM
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Re: [markguycan] bAD fIXED pRO [In reply to]
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markguycan wrote:
What do you do when you come across some old and less than inspiring gear?

Share you rants, rationale or pics.

Fixed it.


Lazlo


Jan 3, 2009, 8:52 AM
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johnwesely wrote:
markguycan wrote:
What do you do when you come across some old and less than inspiring gear?

Share you rants, rationale or pics.

Fixed it.

Wow! What the heck is that!?


Lazlo


Jan 3, 2009, 8:54 AM
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markguycan wrote:
What do you do when you come across some old and less than inspiring gear?

I try to take it home! That's what I tend to do. There's a purple TCU that I'm still sad that I couldn't get from a climb.


shoo


Jan 3, 2009, 9:09 AM
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Re: [markguycan] bAD fIXED pRO [In reply to]
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This thread has basically already been done.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...tring=manky;#1615416


salamanizer


Jan 3, 2009, 9:29 AM
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Clip it and go or bail.


Lazlo


Jan 3, 2009, 10:01 AM
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salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?


Maddhatter


Jan 3, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Remove and replace it with good pro or tell someone who can.


coastal_climber


Jan 3, 2009, 10:23 AM
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Are we talking pins as well? I climb mostly on basalt, so the local ethics are to leave pins in when placed. This makes for some interesting testing. When they do fail, you usually rip out the entire placement as well. Pretty annoying.


>Cam


salamanizer


Jan 3, 2009, 10:46 AM
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Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.


joeforte


Jan 3, 2009, 11:40 AM
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salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

I carry a screamer with a DMM revolver on the rope end for clipping mank. Climb on, treating it like there was no pro at all. I tend to climb well when there's little/no pro. I think everyone has that instinct, but some people are less likely to intentionally climb into those situations.


Lazlo


Jan 3, 2009, 12:11 PM
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joeforte wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

Want to know a trick?

Put a prussick on the other strand of the rope (belayer side). In the event of the piece blowing; you're caught by the prussick with x# of feet of slack with the mank clipped to it.

I know, hard to explain...but think about it. It works.


shrug7


Jan 3, 2009, 12:21 PM
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Re: [markguycan] Bad Fixed Pro [In reply to]
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Clip it and go.


Not fixed, but I saw this once while out... (repost from the manky anchor thread)

TR Anchor...




markguycan


Jan 3, 2009, 12:49 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] bAD fIXED pRO [In reply to]
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good advice Lazlo,
I hate to back off. I should have done that the time I was 20ft run out with no pro in sight for another 30ft- unwilling to press on I tied off a pinky-thick young tree and down climbed to my last piece. when I got to it I gave my rope a yank and removed the tree! That would have been a long fall!
Here's another pic of Beckey's 38yr old bolts:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Gear/Bomber__104515.html


(This post was edited by markguycan on Jan 3, 2009, 12:56 PM)


TheRucat


Jan 3, 2009, 2:55 PM
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I recall a thread on here a while back depicting a piece of pro that consisted of a tuna fish can slung with cord jammed in a crack.
I'd clip into it...


salamanizer


Jan 3, 2009, 8:57 PM
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joeforte wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

I carry a screamer with a DMM revolver on the rope end for clipping mank. Climb on, treating it like there was no pro at all. I tend to climb well when there's little/no pro. I think everyone has that instinct, but some people are less likely to intentionally climb into those situations.

Yes, it would, but it would be an even longer fall if you were to climb on, blow it somewhere up higher and still rip the piece. It's all up to you in the moment. Examine the pros and cons, estimate the commitment/difficulty and make a decision.

I'm with you though, I hate to bail and love spicy climbing. I'd never carry a screamer all the time though, too much of a minimalest. Hell, the route's gotta be over 10 pitches or take longer than 8 hours before I even carry water.


Lazlo


Jan 4, 2009, 1:49 AM
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salamanizer wrote:
joeforte wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

I carry a screamer with a DMM revolver on the rope end for clipping mank. Climb on, treating it like there was no pro at all. I tend to climb well when there's little/no pro. I think everyone has that instinct, but some people are less likely to intentionally climb into those situations.

Yes, it would, but it would be an even longer fall if you were to climb on, blow it somewhere up higher and still rip the piece. It's all up to you in the moment. Examine the pros and cons, estimate the commitment/difficulty and make a decision.

I'm with you though, I hate to bail and love spicy climbing. I'd never carry a screamer all the time though, too much of a minimalest. Hell, the route's gotta be over 10 pitches or take longer than 8 hours before I even carry water.

Shhh. Hear that? [foot steps in the hall] That's Majid comming into the forum. His spidy sense was tingling.


qwert


Jan 4, 2009, 2:06 AM
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Lazlo wrote:
joeforte wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

Want to know a trick?

Put a prussick on the other strand of the rope (belayer side). In the event of the piece blowing; you're caught by the prussick with x# of feet of slack with the mank clipped to it.

I know, hard to explain...but think about it. It works.
Could you explain that trick a bit more?
i dont get it.

Another "solution":
double ropes.
clip one strand to the mank, and treat that as your "toprope" while downclimbing.
Your other strand goes down to the last piece of pro, and is your normal below you protection.
Problem is: the belayer has the hard task of using one strand as toprope going down (giving out rope) and one as going down lead (taking in rope).
If you fall, you have the chance of being stopped by the mank. if it blows, "its just a lead fall" with the added benefit of some force possibly being already absorbed by the blown mank.

qwert


Lazlo


Jan 4, 2009, 2:16 AM
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qwert wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
joeforte wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Lazlo wrote:
salamanizer wrote:
Clip it and go or bail.

Bail on the manky goodness?

Yes, clip it and downclimb to the last good piece.

Wow that would make for a LONG fall if you were to slip and rip the mank.

Want to know a trick?

Put a prussick on the other strand of the rope (belayer side). In the event of the piece blowing; you're caught by the prussick with x# of feet of slack with the mank clipped to it.

I know, hard to explain...but think about it. It works.
Could you explain that trick a bit more?
i dont get it.

Another "solution":
double ropes.
clip one strand to the mank, and treat that as your "toprope" while downclimbing.
Your other strand goes down to the last piece of pro, and is your normal below you protection.
Problem is: the belayer has the hard task of using one strand as toprope going down (giving out rope) and one as going down lead (taking in rope).
If you fall, you have the chance of being stopped by the mank. if it blows, "its just a lead fall" with the added benefit of some force possibly being already absorbed by the blown mank.

qwert

Hmm. Nice advantage of half ropes. Never thought of that.

As for the prussick:

- Imagine having lowered a few feet below the manky piece of gear.
- You would place the prussick on the belayer side of the rope
- the other end of the prussick is attatched to your harness
- as you lower/downclimb you're also 'minding' the prussick and slidding it down the rope toward the belayer
- suddenly you slip, manky gear rips out
- you fall
- When you come to rest, you're hanging below the next good piece of gear. You're suspended by the prussick...and there's a length of rope that has been "neutralized" by the prussick. On this length of rope is the manky gear, still clipped to it.

Does that help?


qwert


Jan 4, 2009, 3:16 AM
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Lazlo wrote:

Hmm. Nice advantage of half ropes. Never thought of that.

As for the prussick:

- Imagine having lowered a few feet below the manky piece of gear.
- You would place the prussick on the belayer side of the rope
- the other end of the prussick is attatched to your harness
- as you lower/downclimb you're also 'minding' the prussick and slidding it down the rope toward the belayer
- suddenly you slip, manky gear rips out
- you fall
- When you come to rest, you're hanging below the next good piece of gear. You're suspended by the prussick...and there's a length of rope that has been "neutralized" by the prussick. On this length of rope is the manky gear, still clipped to it.

Does that help?
Yes, that helps. now i get it.
Could be an interesting idea.
However IMHO there are a few things to consider:
- Moving the prussik down the rope is very hard in most but the easiest downclimbing situations
- if the top mank blows, you get a full lead fall into a prusik, and i am not shure if thats a good thing to happen (small cord breaking? melting issues?)

qwert


16stfd16


Jan 4, 2009, 6:24 AM
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I like that idea, but would an auto block be easier to move down the rope while down climbing than a prussick?


Lazlo


Jan 4, 2009, 7:17 AM
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qwert wrote:
Lazlo wrote:

Hmm. Nice advantage of half ropes. Never thought of that.

As for the prussick:

- Imagine having lowered a few feet below the manky piece of gear.
- You would place the prussick on the belayer side of the rope
- the other end of the prussick is attatched to your harness
- as you lower/downclimb you're also 'minding' the prussick and slidding it down the rope toward the belayer
- suddenly you slip, manky gear rips out
- you fall
- When you come to rest, you're hanging below the next good piece of gear. You're suspended by the prussick...and there's a length of rope that has been "neutralized" by the prussick. On this length of rope is the manky gear, still clipped to it.

Does that help?
Yes, that helps. now i get it.
Could be an interesting idea.
However IMHO there are a few things to consider:
- Moving the prussik down the rope is very hard in most but the easiest downclimbing situations
- if the top mank blows, you get a full lead fall into a prusik, and i am not shure if thats a good thing to happen (small cord breaking? melting issues?)

qwert

Valid concerns... but not so serious as to prevent its use, right? What's the worst that could happen? You'd just fall the length you would anyway without it.


Lazlo


Jan 4, 2009, 7:19 AM
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16stfd16 wrote:
I like that idea, but would an auto block be easier to move down the rope while down climbing than a prussick?

It would be easier...but for that same reason; it won't grab in a fall.


16stfd16


Jan 4, 2009, 9:40 AM
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Oh, well prussick it is then i guess, thanks for the tip!


salamanizer


Jan 4, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Lazlo wrote:
Valid concerns... but not so serious as to prevent its use, right? What's the worst that could happen? You'd just fall the length you would anyway without it.

Not a great idea IMO> If you shock load a prissik they can and have melted right through the rope.

So the worst that could happen is you fall to your death.

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