I was there in early october and did not see any of the lower bolts.

Was there in early November and was looking to climb Plumbers Crack. The fact that it was noted in the guide as bolted was encouragement for us novice climbers who love the challenge of crack climbs. Unfortunate for us, the bolts were chopped and we left our trad rack in car. A long hike in and the rack in the car led for a dissappointing morning.

I need a little lunch break, so I think I'll head out and have a look now. I'll report back soon.

I don't remember it being chossy at all, but I could be wrong. I also don't remember it being spectacular, but apparently I still gave it 4 stars out of five in the database...Chopped or not, it's not really worthy of being argued over. Jay's right - it shouldn't have been bolted in the first place (I led it on a single set of nuts and one tricam) but it's not such a great line that anyone should have really felt compelled to pull the bolts, especially in an area that's already got so many.

I hate (=am jealous) that you can do that.

I know this doesn't address the topic completely, i feel it is related though.

What is wrong with climbing, placing your own gear, and skipping the bolts? Really! I can think of a handful of climbs down at Sandstonia that could be done on gear. If I felt like carrying my rack down there I am sure i could send some of those routes on pro. That doesn't imply that i should chop the bolts because I did it!

I'm sure this has been discussed on here... But this particular wall is a great place for beginner's to experience a large concentration of moderate routes. Why not leave the bolts so they can lead the routes on both gear and bolts... Everyone that has climbed there agrees the rock quality isn't exactly like the other World Class Climbing Walls at the New.

Its annoying to know that someone obviously could climb the Plumber's Crack without bolts, hence removing them. Leaving the climb utterly useless to the beginner's that really can benefit from the climb. Garrrrr.

I'm still not advocating that they should have been chopped, I'm just saying that it's hardly worth a mention in the first place other than to let people know the bolts aren't there anymore. In my opinion, it was lame to chop them, but almost as lame to complain about it.

IMO your attitude towards chopping that route is lame.

No offense, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. I spend most of my time climbing outside at the NEW.

That particular wall is where i like to take n00bies and don't like the fact that someone is changing the routes to meet their ego.

Not arguing

pointing

fact that you seem

not annoying.

Not arguing, just pointing out the fact that you seem to think poor cragg ethics are not annoying.

Buy a set of nuts and you can still climb it. By the way, how do you know why someone chopped it? Don't be so presumptuous. For all you know, that line could have been put up 20 years before it got bolted. Maybe the first ascentionist didn't like the fact that someone came in and retrobolted his natural line. You and I will probably never know, and it's not really worth arguing about.

True, I don't know what the story is behind that line, but I do recall climbing it some 15 years ago when I was still in high school after seeing someone else climbing it on a previous weekend out there. I was surprised to see it had been bolted, but whatever. If I don't know the facts behind it's full history, I don't have any room to form an opinion.

That pretty much kills the POOR POOR PITIFUL NOOB argument sully offered.

DMT

ADD: It just occurred to me that Lay Back and Enjoy It 5.10d was missing a bolt through the finger crack section... anyone else notice this?