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majid_sabet


Jan 19, 2009, 4:16 PM
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Messner slammed over climber advice
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 (ANSA) - Aosta, January 19 - Italy's greatest living mountaineer, Reinhold Messner, came under fire on Monday for allegedly suggesting that climbers should not rope themselves together.

Giving a television interview after four Italian climbers fell to their deaths on the French side of Mont Blanc on Saturday, Messner said it was possible to ''learn something from such accidents''.............

http://www.ansa.it/...01-19_119321374.html


notapplicable


Jan 19, 2009, 4:55 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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Sometimes a rope enhances safety for the party, sometimes it undermines it. The situation dictates.


k.l.k


Jan 19, 2009, 5:09 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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If they fell off that short snow ridge between the glacier and the entrance to the station (and that sounds like what happened), then he was right:

You shouldn't be roped there unless you're belaying.


nkane


Jan 19, 2009, 5:25 PM
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Re: [k.l.k] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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When Italians comment on a news story, they don't say much.

Is Italian like Japanese, where one little sentence has the same meaning as a paragraph of English?


(This post was edited by nkane on Jan 19, 2009, 5:36 PM)


billl7


Jan 19, 2009, 5:39 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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Messner slammed over climber advice
Italian great warns of the dangers of being roped together


Pretty sensationalistic headline. Even the lowly FOTH addresses the idea that the group should not be roped together under some circumstances.

Bill L


carabiner96


Jan 19, 2009, 6:51 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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I though he was a media shunning hermit these days?


k.l.k


Jan 20, 2009, 7:35 AM
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Re: [carabiner96] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
I though he was a media shunning hermit these days?

He has his own line of perfume. When I was in the Dolomites last year, I saw him on some local cooking show trying to promote his new museum.

Not much of a hermit.


dingus


Jan 20, 2009, 8:32 AM
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Re: [k.l.k] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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The article was flawed from the 1st sentence. Bonatti LIVES.

DMT


onceahardman


Jan 20, 2009, 11:52 AM
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Re: [dingus] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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Messner has a better resume than Bonatti...

Here is Messner's quote, without the media filter:

In reply to:
''I never said not to use the rope, I simply said that climbers attached to a rope must absolutely be (securely) anchored to the mountain wall, otherwise there is a risk of what happened on Mont Blanc''.

''It's deceptive to believe that you can support the weight of someone you are roped together with (if they fall). A mountaineer can drag five people with him into a crevasse if they are not securely anchored''.

''All these polemics go to show that people don't realise that mountains are dangerous. There is no guarantee for climbers' lives. A mountain without dangers is not a mountain but an illusion''.

Messner, 64, was the first man to scale Everest solo without oxygen, a feat until then thought impossible, and was also the first to climb all 14 of the world's peaks over 8,000 metres.


dingus


Jan 20, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Re: [onceahardman] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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onceahardman wrote:
Messner has a better resume than Bonatti...

Here is Messner's quote, without the media filter:

In reply to:
''I never said not to use the rope, I simply said that climbers attached to a rope must absolutely be (securely) anchored to the mountain wall, otherwise there is a risk of what happened on Mont Blanc''.

''It's deceptive to believe that you can support the weight of someone you are roped together with (if they fall). A mountaineer can drag five people with him into a crevasse if they are not securely anchored''.

''All these polemics go to show that people don't realise that mountains are dangerous. There is no guarantee for climbers' lives. A mountain without dangers is not a mountain but an illusion''.

Messner, 64, was the first man to scale Everest solo without oxygen, a feat until then thought impossible, and was also the first to climb all 14 of the world's peaks over 8,000 metres.

yes yes his history is well known.

Bonatti, 2 decades prior, spent the night out at 8000m after his back stabbing Italian mounteering partners screwed him out of a summit and nearly cost him his life.

This is not an argument or discussion that will change your or my mind brother. Each man made incredible marks on our sport, but I sincerely believe Bonatti is the greatest living mountaineer.

Cheers and here's to Italian Mountaineers (and women, here's to Italian women too!)

DMT


k.l.k


Jan 20, 2009, 4:28 PM
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Re: [dingus] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
This is not an argument or discussion that will change your or my mind brother. Each man made incredible marks on our sport, but I sincerely believe Bonatti is the greatest living mountaineer.

DMT

One of the most amazing things about Bonatti is that he walked away from it so early. I still can't call Messner an Italian mountaineer-- Italy had been given South Tirol by the time he was born, but still . . . .
And yes, Gervasutti, Cassin, Bonatti . . . . North Americans know far too little about the Italian tradition. Including the Italian women alpinists . . . .

Sorry to hear of the accident-- that they were so very close to safety makes it tougher to read about.


onceahardman


Jan 20, 2009, 6:32 PM
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Re: [dingus] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Cheers and here's to Italian Mountaineers (and women, here's to Italian women too!)

Agreed! (except for the women part. I was once married to an Italian woman. BIG MI$TAKE)

They have great wine and cars too. Beer sucks though. For that, I'll take Germany...and Fritz Weissner was one of my heroes.


curt


Jan 20, 2009, 6:44 PM
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Re: [onceahardman] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Cool

Curt


onceahardman


Jan 20, 2009, 6:59 PM
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Re: [curt] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus.

Very cool. Fritz had a great eye for a good line. He was a bit of a wide crack connoisseur. While in the USA the difficulty of his routes ends around 5.9, rumor has it he did some stiff 5.10s in Germany in the 1920s...in rope-soled klettershue.

Edit: and before the invention of nylon!


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Jan 20, 2009, 7:03 PM)


altelis


Jan 20, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Re: [curt] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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I actually lived with, climb with, and am dear friends with, Fritzy's grand-son Niko (Nick....)

That kid moves over rock in the most beautiful way I have ever witnessed. Skis that way too- on LONG straight skis (and this kid is 27), even in Utah

Too bad he finds ice boring, trad not as inspiring as sport and bouldering and alpine too much work. He likes the warm and beaches- he's moved to Cape Town actually. Well, not really too bad in general, just interesting given his ancestry. He really is the most aesthetic climber I've had the privilege of roping up with. Drinks like a fish, tooTongue


styndall


Jan 20, 2009, 7:34 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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The article seems like a serious attempt at drama where no drama ought be. His advice, especially as he clarified, is good.


Partner robdotcalm


Jan 20, 2009, 8:12 PM
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Re: [styndall] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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According to the Gunks guidebook and Wikipedia, the name is "Fritz Wiessner".

rob.calm


k.l.k


Jan 20, 2009, 8:51 PM
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Re: [robdotcalm] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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robdotcalm wrote:
According to the Gunks guidebook and Wikipedia, the name is "Fritz Wiessner".

Well, Curt was posting at 6:44 in the evening, so he was probably half-a-bottle into the inaugural celebration and the ei/ie thing just slipped past.


dingus


Jan 20, 2009, 10:34 PM
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Re: [curt] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Cool

Curt

Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style.

DMT


curt


Jan 20, 2009, 11:45 PM
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Re: [dingus] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
curt wrote:
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Cool

Curt

Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style.

DMT

Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell.

Curt


tradrenn


Jan 21, 2009, 2:03 AM
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Re: [curt] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
dingus wrote:
curt wrote:
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Cool

Curt

Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style.

DMT

Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell.

Curt

Welcome to RC.com, you should fit right in.Tongue


onceahardman


Jan 21, 2009, 5:22 AM
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Re: [curt] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
dingus wrote:
curt wrote:
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Cool

Curt

Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style.

DMT

Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell.

Curt


It was me who introduced the mis-spelling. You just copied my poor form.

Thanks for the correction.


fresh


Jan 21, 2009, 6:28 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations.


Hotpies


Jan 21, 2009, 7:01 AM
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Re: [fresh] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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fresh wrote:
I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations.

Might want to consider a qualifier like "almost all" or "most." Maybe not. It's [mostly] your life.


reno


Jan 21, 2009, 8:13 AM
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Re: [Hotpies] Messner slammed over climber advice [In reply to]
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Hotpies wrote:
fresh wrote:
I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations.

Might want to consider a qualifier like "almost all" or "most." Maybe not. It's [mostly] your life.

I think he was trying to type the "Does not equal" sign with the ! before the =... in which case, he's correct: A rope does not equal safety in all situations.

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