|
majid_sabet
Jan 20, 2009, 12:16 AM
Post #1 of 28
(8244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
(ANSA) - Aosta, January 19 - Italy's greatest living mountaineer, Reinhold Messner, came under fire on Monday for allegedly suggesting that climbers should not rope themselves together.
Giving a television interview after four Italian climbers fell to their deaths on the French side of Mont Blanc on Saturday, Messner said it was possible to ''learn something from such accidents''.............
http://www.ansa.it/...01-19_119321374.html
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Jan 20, 2009, 12:55 AM
Post #2 of 28
(8203 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
Sometimes a rope enhances safety for the party, sometimes it undermines it. The situation dictates.
|
|
|
|
|
k.l.k
Jan 20, 2009, 1:09 AM
Post #3 of 28
(8178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1190
|
If they fell off that short snow ridge between the glacier and the entrance to the station (and that sounds like what happened), then he was right:
You shouldn't be roped there unless you're belaying.
|
|
|
|
|
nkane
Jan 20, 2009, 1:25 AM
Post #4 of 28
(8148 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2006
Posts: 143
|
When Italians comment on a news story, they don't say much.
Is Italian like Japanese, where one little sentence has the same meaning as a paragraph of English?
(This post was edited by nkane on Jan 20, 2009, 1:36 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
billl7
Jan 20, 2009, 1:39 AM
Post #5 of 28
(8130 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
|
Messner slammed over climber advice
Italian great warns of the dangers of being roped together
Pretty sensationalistic headline. Even the lowly FOTH addresses the idea that the group should not be roped together under some circumstances.
Bill L
|
|
|
|
|
carabiner96
Jan 20, 2009, 2:51 AM
Post #6 of 28
(8067 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610
|
I though he was a media shunning hermit these days?
|
|
|
|
|
k.l.k
Jan 20, 2009, 3:35 PM
Post #7 of 28
(7979 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1190
|
carabiner96 wrote: I though he was a media shunning hermit these days?
He has his own line of perfume. When I was in the Dolomites last year, I saw him on some local cooking show trying to promote his new museum.
Not much of a hermit.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Jan 20, 2009, 4:32 PM
Post #8 of 28
(7917 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
The article was flawed from the 1st sentence. Bonatti LIVES.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
Jan 20, 2009, 7:52 PM
Post #9 of 28
(7831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
Messner has a better resume than Bonatti...
Here is Messner's quote, without the media filter:
In reply to: ''I never said not to use the rope, I simply said that climbers attached to a rope must absolutely be (securely) anchored to the mountain wall, otherwise there is a risk of what happened on Mont Blanc''. ''It's deceptive to believe that you can support the weight of someone you are roped together with (if they fall). A mountaineer can drag five people with him into a crevasse if they are not securely anchored''. ''All these polemics go to show that people don't realise that mountains are dangerous. There is no guarantee for climbers' lives. A mountain without dangers is not a mountain but an illusion''.
Messner, 64, was the first man to scale Everest solo without oxygen, a feat until then thought impossible, and was also the first to climb all 14 of the world's peaks over 8,000 metres.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Jan 20, 2009, 7:56 PM
Post #10 of 28
(7826 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
onceahardman wrote: Messner has a better resume than Bonatti... Here is Messner's quote, without the media filter: In reply to: ''I never said not to use the rope, I simply said that climbers attached to a rope must absolutely be (securely) anchored to the mountain wall, otherwise there is a risk of what happened on Mont Blanc''. ''It's deceptive to believe that you can support the weight of someone you are roped together with (if they fall). A mountaineer can drag five people with him into a crevasse if they are not securely anchored''. ''All these polemics go to show that people don't realise that mountains are dangerous. There is no guarantee for climbers' lives. A mountain without dangers is not a mountain but an illusion''. Messner, 64, was the first man to scale Everest solo without oxygen, a feat until then thought impossible, and was also the first to climb all 14 of the world's peaks over 8,000 metres.
yes yes his history is well known.
Bonatti, 2 decades prior, spent the night out at 8000m after his back stabbing Italian mounteering partners screwed him out of a summit and nearly cost him his life.
This is not an argument or discussion that will change your or my mind brother. Each man made incredible marks on our sport, but I sincerely believe Bonatti is the greatest living mountaineer.
Cheers and here's to Italian Mountaineers (and women, here's to Italian women too!)
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
k.l.k
Jan 21, 2009, 12:28 AM
Post #11 of 28
(7740 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1190
|
dingus wrote: This is not an argument or discussion that will change your or my mind brother. Each man made incredible marks on our sport, but I sincerely believe Bonatti is the greatest living mountaineer. DMT
One of the most amazing things about Bonatti is that he walked away from it so early. I still can't call Messner an Italian mountaineer-- Italy had been given South Tirol by the time he was born, but still . . . .
And yes, Gervasutti, Cassin, Bonatti . . . . North Americans know far too little about the Italian tradition. Including the Italian women alpinists . . . .
Sorry to hear of the accident-- that they were so very close to safety makes it tougher to read about.
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
Jan 21, 2009, 2:32 AM
Post #12 of 28
(7683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
In reply to: Cheers and here's to Italian Mountaineers (and women, here's to Italian women too!)
Agreed! (except for the women part. I was once married to an Italian woman. BIG MI$TAKE)
They have great wine and cars too. Beer sucks though. For that, I'll take Germany...and Fritz Weissner was one of my heroes.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jan 21, 2009, 2:44 AM
Post #13 of 28
(7669 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. 
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
Jan 21, 2009, 2:59 AM
Post #14 of 28
(7652 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
In reply to: I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus.
Very cool. Fritz had a great eye for a good line. He was a bit of a wide crack connoisseur. While in the USA the difficulty of his routes ends around 5.9, rumor has it he did some stiff 5.10s in Germany in the 1920s...in rope-soled klettershue.
Edit: and before the invention of nylon!
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Jan 21, 2009, 3:03 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Jan 21, 2009, 3:11 AM
Post #15 of 28
(7639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
I actually lived with, climb with, and am dear friends with, Fritzy's grand-son Niko (Nick....)
That kid moves over rock in the most beautiful way I have ever witnessed. Skis that way too- on LONG straight skis (and this kid is 27), even in Utah
Too bad he finds ice boring, trad not as inspiring as sport and bouldering and alpine too much work. He likes the warm and beaches- he's moved to Cape Town actually. Well, not really too bad in general, just interesting given his ancestry. He really is the most aesthetic climber I've had the privilege of roping up with. Drinks like a fish, too
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Jan 21, 2009, 3:34 AM
Post #16 of 28
(7620 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
The article seems like a serious attempt at drama where no drama ought be. His advice, especially as he clarified, is good.
|
|
|
|
|
robdotcalm
Jan 21, 2009, 4:12 AM
Post #17 of 28
(7598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1027
|
According to the Gunks guidebook and Wikipedia, the name is "Fritz Wiessner".
rob.calm
|
|
|
|
|
k.l.k
Jan 21, 2009, 4:51 AM
Post #18 of 28
(7566 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1190
|
robdotcalm wrote: According to the Gunks guidebook and Wikipedia, the name is "Fritz Wiessner".
Well, Curt was posting at 6:44 in the evening, so he was probably half-a-bottle into the inaugural celebration and the ei/ie thing just slipped past.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Jan 21, 2009, 6:34 AM
Post #19 of 28
(7524 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
curt wrote: I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Curt
Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jan 21, 2009, 7:45 AM
Post #20 of 28
(7499 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
dingus wrote: curt wrote: I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Curt Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style. DMT
Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Jan 21, 2009, 10:03 AM
Post #21 of 28
(7473 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
curt wrote: dingus wrote: curt wrote: I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Curt Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style. DMT Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell. Curt
Welcome to RC.com, you should fit right in.
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
Jan 21, 2009, 1:22 PM
Post #22 of 28
(7443 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
curt wrote: dingus wrote: curt wrote: I've climbed with Fritz Weissner...and Fritz's son Andy...and Andy's son Angus. Curt Tip O the Hat to you Curt. You have style. DMT Thanks. Apparently, I just can't spell. Curt
It was me who introduced the mis-spelling. You just copied my poor form.
Thanks for the correction.
|
|
|
|
|
fresh
Jan 21, 2009, 2:28 PM
Post #23 of 28
(7417 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 7, 2007
Posts: 1199
|
I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations.
|
|
|
|
|
Hotpies
Jan 21, 2009, 3:01 PM
Post #24 of 28
(7393 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2008
Posts: 57
|
fresh wrote: I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations.
Might want to consider a qualifier like "almost all" or "most." Maybe not. It's [mostly] your life.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jan 21, 2009, 4:13 PM
Post #25 of 28
(7344 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Hotpies wrote: fresh wrote: I'm not a hardcore mountaineer, but this article seems pretty poorly informed. for starters, ricardo cassin is still alive. and as many people have said, ropes != safety in all situations. Might want to consider a qualifier like "almost all" or "most." Maybe not. It's [mostly] your life.
I think he was trying to type the "Does not equal" sign with the ! before the =... in which case, he's correct: A rope does not equal safety in all situations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
