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togden
Feb 2, 2009, 7:37 PM
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I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else."
What gives?
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lodi5onu
Feb 2, 2009, 7:41 PM
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togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives?
pussy
(This post was edited by lodi5onu on Feb 2, 2009, 7:42 PM)
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togden
Feb 2, 2009, 7:46 PM
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Okay, thanks for that...
But seriously, what's up with this mentality surrounding 5.12s?
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krusher4
Feb 2, 2009, 8:20 PM
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well you only have 14 posts...so no matter how long you've climbed I would say that's the thing holding you back.
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Valarc
Feb 2, 2009, 8:24 PM
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Spray spray spray spray.
Some people climb hard right away, some people work their way up slowly. Some people never get there period.
Personally, I don't care which route folks take, but the little pissants who spray about it get on my nerves.
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johnwesely
Feb 2, 2009, 8:39 PM
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It took me about two years. If you think that you might be able to do a route then try it.
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cush
Feb 2, 2009, 8:44 PM
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it's all a matter of whether or not youre motivated to do it. i've been climbing less than a year and although i haven't sent a 5.12 i've sent numerous 5.11s. i have friends that have been climbing for years longer than i have but they stick to nothing tougher than an easy .10. if you get on the rock and try things out of your skill level you will improve. apparently you have been doing this. more power to you.
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shimanilami
Feb 2, 2009, 8:45 PM
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About 7 minutes.
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jeepnphreak
Feb 2, 2009, 8:50 PM
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I climbed for about 2 years before I was able to make it up my first .12a.
my fingers hurt for two days afterward. can I lead a 5.12 yep if I give all I have, and I kill my hands for a day.
rember that some people are bulit for climbing and some are not. I am not one of those gifted few that naturally can send a 5.12, you may not either.
go climb things are a difficult, push your shelf and have fun but dont destroy your body in the process.
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troutboy
Feb 2, 2009, 8:55 PM
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Well, the question may be spray or perhaps the OP is just a kid who really is curious and does realize the spray factor...
However, I think there is a reasonable answer. I have had this discussion with several folks who climb much harder than I do (i.e. 5.12 is a warm up for them) and we all had the same conclusion. YMMV and it may be way off base.
Essentially, almost anyone, given a reasonable amount of training, positive attitude, reasonable body dimensions (w/ regard to weight, not height), can climb 5.12. Assuming a person fits the above (sounds as if the OP's friend may not have the "attitude" part down yet), the difference between 5.10-5.11 and 5.12 is foot work. Essentially, you can brute force your way through any 5.10, and many 5.11s. So many of them are merely overhanging jug hauls that super precise foot work is secondary. But there are very few 5.12s where precise footwork and body control are not required.
Essentially, those who develop good foot work at an early stage can advance rapidly to climb 5.12. Those who develop foot work later may eventually get to 5.12. Those who progress rapidly through 5.10 based solely on gym training and strength, likely will not be able to climb a 5.12 until they master precise foot work.
Other opinions ?
TS
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granite_grrl
Feb 2, 2009, 9:03 PM
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5.12 is kind of the grade where almos any average person can get to, but can take a hell of a lot of work. Many people who climb don't have the drive, time or desire to reach that grade, but for most that do you know that they've worked for it.
Of course, there are always exceptions.
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togden
Feb 2, 2009, 9:37 PM
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I never meant to come off as a pompous jerk or anything... I just really am baffled as to why people convince themselves they can't do 5.12s.
And for the record, I have worked quite hard to get where I'm at, and I'm not trying to discount the work that others put in as well. I know very well that there are thousands of other climbers who are better than me.
I am fortunate enough to live within 20 minutes of Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons in Utah and I was climbing there 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week.
(This post was edited by togden on Feb 2, 2009, 9:38 PM)
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Myxomatosis
Feb 2, 2009, 10:12 PM
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I think it just really depends on how much you want it.... Some people are just happy to top rope 5.9's all day long.. some people want to find there limit. A big factor is how oftern you get injured or take time out from climbing
The faster you get on lead and off top roping from a beginner the faster I think you improve.
Also there are some easy 5.12's around, one move wonders with safe fall's... they are hardly worth saying you can climb 5.12's.
Personally I try find a line that inspires me, something with a hard sequence of moves that really push's me and my abilities.
I guess I am more inspired to work my projects than go around finding 5.12's I can climb.
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Valarc
Feb 3, 2009, 2:55 AM
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togden wrote: I never meant to come off as a pompous jerk or anything... I just really am baffled as to why people convince themselves they can't do 5.12s. I am fortunate enough to live within 20 minutes of Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons in Utah and I was climbing there 2 or 3 times a week
I think your proximity to great climbing has colored your vision. A lot of those folks who "convinced themselves" that they can't climb 5.12 also can't hit up a destination crag three times a week.
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curt
Feb 3, 2009, 5:24 AM
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togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives?
Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Grab the rack and try a few 5.12s in the Gunks--then report back.
Curt
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angry
Feb 3, 2009, 6:30 AM
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curt wrote: Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Grab the rack and try a few 5.12s in the Gunks--then report back. Curt
5.12a is the new 10c
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USnavy
Feb 3, 2009, 9:00 AM
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1 1/4 years. I knew a girl that made it to 5.12 in 4 months. I know another that can redpoint 12d after two years of climbing. Then again I also know those who have been climbing for 5 years and only top rope 5.8's. You can do 5.12 if you push yourself. If you actually take the time to work at it you should be able to climb 5.12. Its possible for the average person to make 5.12 if they are dedicated enough to getting there.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Feb 3, 2009, 9:12 AM)
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lena_chita
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Feb 3, 2009, 3:22 PM
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togden wrote: I never meant to come off as a pompous jerk or anything... I just really am baffled as to why people convince themselves they can't do 5.12s. And for the record, I have worked quite hard to get where I'm at, and I'm not trying to discount the work that others put in as well. I know very well that there are thousands of other climbers who are better than me. I am fortunate enough to live within 20 minutes of Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons in Utah and I was climbing there 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week.
I'm guessing that you are a guy in your early 20s?
Then yeah, sure, 5.12 is not that hard, and given your access to good climbing and training gym, and your obvious drive to do it, you will probably climb it within the next year and keep on climbing harder stuff.
I hang-dogged my first 5.12 during my second season of climbing outside, and redpointed my first 5.12 during the third season. I started climbing at the age of 32, after having two kids, and I cannot climb as much as I'd like to. I do not think that 5.12 is particularly hard, or that I have reached the plateau and won't be able to climb anything harder, but it isn't easy for me either.
I think that given the time and proper training, an average person can climb 5.12. Not everyone wants to put the effort, mental or physical, into doing it.
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dingus
Feb 3, 2009, 3:30 PM
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togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives?
Bolts and hang dogging, that's what gives.
Without them the Giving Tree would be much harder to climb.
DMT
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subantz
Feb 3, 2009, 4:09 PM
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Never climbed a 12. I still struggle on hard 10's but thats not why I climb I climb to get away from the citys B/S, and to enjoy what I am doing not for a grade. Time with friends in a great environment.
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Vicar
Feb 3, 2009, 9:51 PM
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It took me many years. Climbing for me for a long time was a social thing that I did with a large group of friends. We were the most consistent bunch of 5.9 to 5.10- climbers on the planet.
One day something snapped mentally for me and climbing more challenging things became more important. I'd guess from that moment to my first 5.12 redpoint was a year or so. That said, I took the traditional pyramid approach and climbed zillions of 5.10+ and 5.11 routes before even trying 5.12.
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dynosore
Feb 3, 2009, 10:18 PM
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togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives?
Yawn. I was climbing 11's after about 1-1/2 years, then I hurt myself and coupled with injuries from a car accident I had to seriously evaluate why I climb. I climb to get outdoors, and enjoy the mountains. So I will never climb 12's, and I only like trad climbing, and I'm ok with that.
Like the other poster said, try balancing a family, career, volunteering, and any other activity with climbing then tell me how easy it is.
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 4, 2009, 3:29 PM
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curt wrote: togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives? Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Grab the rack and try a few 5.12s in the Gunks--then report back. Curt
All right, here's a hypothetical question. What if you are an exceptionally fit retard. I don't mean to spray or anything, but my buns and abs of steel glisten in the sunlight. Can i expect to climb 13a? b maybe? Just askin'. 
Josh
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 4:51 PM
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Your buns of steel are hypothetical?
DMT
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AlexCV
Feb 4, 2009, 8:02 PM
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The key to getting to 5.12 as early as possible is to try as many of them as possible until your find the most ridiculously soft 5.12 so you can actually send it and then spray about climbing 5.12 to anyone who'll ear.
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