This is true but condoms break, the pill isn't fool proof, and lust can cause people not to think straight.

. . .but it does amaze me how many people think it's ok to try and roll it on the wrong way, flip it over and still use it.

This is why I married you.

Modeling a healthy relationship to your child will set them up to seek out healthy relationships and to take nothing less.

This brings back a sad, yet telling, premarital moment! Josh's parents paid for us to have 'premarital counseling' to see if we were compatible. One of the questions was 'What examples or characteristics from your parent's marriage would you like to bring into your own relationship?'

We were given two weeks to come up with an example. To this day I can only come up with examples of what I DON'T want!

My parents are just like George Costanza's parents from Seinfeld. Only they swear and occasionally throw things! It's only funny from a distance - not when it's real life. I have no idea where I really came from.

i would, for the child's sake, not have had the child in a "fast" marriage to a woman whom didn't spend enough time "getting to know.. properly."

people should think more than that before they have kids, about the long-term environment they're bringing a life into. if you can't see three years into the future in a civil fashion with your partner, why in the world would you get pregnant?

They may think or just naively hope that a partner who's kind of hard to get along with may actually become nicer once all the baby-nurturing hormones kick in.

They may just say "screw it, I want a baby now, hope for the best and expect the worst.."

Once you are a parent though, even if things go wrong with your partner, there's no way you're really gonna look at your child and think to yourself "wow, weren't you a mistake."

I've been thinking more about this... There are some guys who will complain about their partner just to solicit 'comfort' from a lady friend.

Rockie - does this guy have a thing for you? Is it one of those 'You understand me so much more than my wife', situations?

Well clausti, "the heart has reasons that reason knows nothing of".

You may think people "should" make decisions on these things like Mr. Spock of Star-Trek fame might, but I believe the reality is people WILL make decisions exactly according to the nature of their brains. For good or bad, people's decision-makng includes input from the "emotional" centers of the brain as well.

I don't have kids, but I was the kid in a similar situation, so I'll throw in my tow cents, FWIW.

My parents had a deeply dysfunctional relationship (I came to realize this looking back on it as I grew older) which ultimately turned my house into the Cold War. My mother and brother versus my father and me (or is it I in this case?). This not only led to huge issues between me and my mom and me and my brother (which we still work on and deal with almost 15 years later) but it completely destroyed my brother's relationship with my dad.

The story for my younger siblings (who were 1 and 4 yrs old when my parents split) is different. Neither of them has any real relationship with my father (most of it is his doing, but the lingering resentment from my mother clearly doesn't help and eventually everything turns into a vicious cycle) but I feel that they have healthier relationships with the rest of the family because they were never forced to take sides (even if it was unintentional) during the Cold War.

The single best thing my parents did for us as their kids was to split up. I think every single person in my family, including my parents, agree with this. If they had been able to maintain a civilized relationship after the divorce (this was mostly my father), it would have been a lot better, but even it was positive even with all the damage the post-divorce all-out war caused.

-F

You probably spent a lot of time thinking on what you wanted for yourself and your children. Negative examples can be a good thing, provided you realize what they are and actively do the opposite.

Too bad about your relationship with your family rockie. My parents divorced early enough (I was 14 or so) that with some time, some counseling and a lot of luck things have gotten better between me and my brother and between me and my mother.

My mother and I still have fundamental differences, but we have learned how to handle them and are getting better at it. We have a pretty good relationship most of the time. One of the lingering issues, though, is that I KNOW some of my behaviors remind her of my father (some of them are objectively negative, some positive) and that pushes her buttons which makes her snap. The fact that she snaps pisses me off because it is often overreaction based on knee jerk and not due to whatever I said/did.

My brother and I had developed a sort of non-aggression treaty which defined our relationship. We barely interacted at all. Luckily, we both wound up getting involved in a music studio with a friend of his and the shared experiences there combined with our love of music have really brought us closer together. There are still a lot of unresolved issues and stuff, but the relationship has gotten a lot better and I think we will be able to work through them or let them go as time moves on.

There are a lot of other issues regarding the actual dynamics of a divorced couple (and their interactions with their kids) which I think are far more relevant to the well being of a child than just the divorce itself, but that, as they say, is another story.

-F

Quite bizarre, and angers me too as that does not resolve matters just acting as if things never happened.

Sadly my parents and brother act that way with me, but I am aware of it and do my best to not let that affect me, the only way now is we have cut off, and it is for the best how I see it.

I believe that sometimes you have to resolve that some relationships in your life will never be resolved.


And yes, sometimes the best way to cope with abusive situations is to look over your shoulder and say 'I will not be treated this way' as you walk out the door. I had this happen and went for a little while without talking with my parents about 10 years ago. Apparently the thought of losing their daughter forever scared them enough to cease and desist all verbal abuse.

However, it has been reported back to me that my parents still unfortunately resort to the 'stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about' phrase with their grandchildren (without the real threat of a smack), and are still absolutely horrible with kids! It is very unfortunate that we don't feel comfortable enough to leave our daughter with her grandparents for a weekend visit - but that's just how it is! They have mellowed out, but not mellow enough in my opinion.

Somewhat off-topic, but I had a completely random conversation with an indian co-worker, that sort of feeds into this thread.

The whole "staying in the loveless mariage is really horrible" thing is really dependent on what culture you are talking about.

The lady co-wroker I was talking with is 49yold. She had an arranged marriage. There was no talk of love ever. Her parents found the guy for her. They were reasonalbe people and they told her that if she strongly disliked the person they chose, they wouldn't force her. Well, she didn't dislike the person, he seemed reasonably nice, she seemed reasonably nice to him - and they married. Their kids are 27 and 23 years old. They have a very stable and happy marriage, and I would say that the kids are very grounded and happy people.

Love? She skoffs at that idea... Love is here, and

I think you said it just fine.

No telling what will happen once there's kids in the mix, but be damned if I'm going to allow myself to turn out like that.

Thank you, and very true. Wow! to that last part, my parents won't even get near their grandchild (my child), I won't allow it. Fact they knew I was pregnant and had not bothered to contact me, just says a lot. They are all over and spoil my brothers children however. I do not care any more.

I am so sorry to hear this! No matter how tough you are, this still has to hurt! But it sounds as if you are doing the absolute right thing in your decisions. We all learn from our parents mistakes, and it sounds like you'll be a better mom for it!

Do threads in the LR always take serious turns like this? I'm seeing a whole 'nother side of people here, and frankly its a welcome change from the usual RC prattle.

-a.