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shimanilami
Feb 25, 2009, 6:59 AM
Post #2 of 13
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Registered: Jul 24, 2006
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Half Dome winter ascent??? Bold. Cold.
Glad the guy's OK.
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limeydave
Feb 25, 2009, 4:34 PM
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Registered: Nov 23, 2006
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300ft tumble on the NW face of Half Dome, in an avalanche and an overnight.
Wow.
Glad he's ok - sounds like they really knew what they were doing.
I've been in the valley in Feb (93) and it's a whole different place when there's that much snow, even the hike up Upper Yosemite falls is like an alien planet.
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majid_sabet
Feb 25, 2009, 5:10 PM
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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I was in the valley two weeks ago and HD had tons of snow on top. HD has strange a independent weather pattern and you can't tell when you may get hit by rain/snow or 40 million volts of electrical discharge.
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graniteboy
Feb 26, 2009, 12:25 AM
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
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This incident points out a problem that Denali Park has had with Korean climbers for many years: these folks have an extraordinarily disproportionate accident and fatality rate relative to other nationalities. DNP has gone to no small effort to try to educate permit applicants to the risks associated with climbing Denali, and that seeems to have helped some....but they still manage to get in alot of accidents/altitude illness incidents.
Anyone know if YNP has attempted a similar avenue of approach to educating ?
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guangzhou
Feb 26, 2009, 8:55 AM
Post #6 of 13
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
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All parks try to educate, but rock climbing is unregulated. In Yosemite, like most climbing areas, you can walk up to any climb and just go at it. Personally, I like that, I would hate to have to apply for a permit to climb a route every time.
On Denali, you need a permit, that makes regulation much easier.
As for Korean climbers, they do have a different view of safety standards. Of course, Asian climbers in general have a different view.
Here in Indonesia, Indonesian climbers also have their own safety standards. They are more reluctant to more modern standards when propose, but some are coming around. I'm still trying to convince many of them that clean climbing is more efficient than pounding pitons, and just as safe if not more so.
Cheers
E
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graniteboy
Feb 26, 2009, 5:22 PM
Post #7 of 13
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
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Thanks, E.
Agreed, education is a keypoint, and overregulation is not needed.
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clee03m
Mar 11, 2009, 6:06 AM
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Registered: Oct 29, 2004
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What are you basing your information on? I would really appreciate it if you would provide facts regarding Koreans that you are basing your comments on and may be your affiliation to Denali National Park. Thanks.
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graniteboy
Mar 11, 2009, 4:25 PM
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I'm basing my info on NPS documents, personal conversations with NPS Search and rescue personnel, the book "surviving Denali", and Jon Waterman's statements in person (Jon no longer works for the NPS).
And no, I don't work for Denali park.
But here's a link to an abstract from the journal High altitude medicine and biology, which came out last year, and analyzes fatality statistics from 1903 thru 1998, and explicitly refers to the higher probability of death for certain nationalities, particularly asians.
In other words, I'm not making this stuff up.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18331224
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Mar 11, 2009, 8:12 PM)
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alleyehave
Mar 31, 2009, 8:04 AM
Post #10 of 13
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Registered: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 461
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graniteboy wrote: I'm basing my info on NPS documents, personal conversations with NPS Search and rescue personnel, the book "surviving Denali", and Jon Waterman's statements in person (Jon no longer works for the NPS). And no, I don't work for Denali park. But here's a link to an abstract from the journal High altitude medicine and biology, which came out last year, and analyzes fatality statistics from 1903 thru 1998, and explicitly refers to the higher probability of death for certain nationalities, particularly asians. In other words, I'm not making this stuff up. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18331224
lol, school the pc whiner!!
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majid_sabet
Mar 31, 2009, 4:13 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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No one knows Korean Climbers better than Sherpas in Himalayas. When I was climbing in Nepal, one night while eating dinner, we brought up the conversation on who are the Sherpa's most favorite climbers?
They looked at us and replied
All but we try to stay away from Koreans and French climbers. They both kill us. They are so pushhhyyyy and demanding and in many times, we refuse to climb with them. Their biggest argument is this; WE PAID AND WE DEMAND SERIVCES.
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guangzhou
Apr 1, 2009, 7:09 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
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I am surprised to hear the french are on the list. Most of the french I've climbed with have been pretty safe.
I live in Asia now and I have climbed with a few Koreans. Some were safer than others, but that can be true of any Nationality. In general, watching Korean teams belay each other at Tonsai scares me some. The distance from the wall belayers stand and the casualness with the belay hand.
With that said, I have yet to see a Korean climber crater while climbing, that's not true of other nationalities.
In general, I evaluate each climber I'm climbing with based on the individual habits they have, not where they come from.
Eman
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jason
Apr 3, 2009, 1:28 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Registered: Apr 24, 2002
Posts: 37
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the korean danger factor is no myth. i live here in korea now, and while some are very safe climbers, climbing with a group of koreans is asking for trouble if you don't already know and trust them. the problem is that when there is an accident here (and they happen often) it is covered up and kept secret because it brings shame to the climbing club involved. i climbed here in 2006 and was decked from 10 meters by a belayer with a gri gri. she had rope burns on her hand and had the gri gri set up properly. luckily there was a bit of friction in the system so i walked away with no broken bones. the climbing gym that i climb at here had an accident last fall and the only reason i heard anything about it was because one of my friends was there to witness a guy fall on his head from about 2.5 meters. last i heard he was still in a coma, and yet the club / gym never mentions it!
all that said, there is some nice rock here, if you find partners you trust.
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