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verticon
Mar 3, 2009, 2:42 PM
Post #1 of 35
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The thread about BD #3 reminded me something that's bothering me.
Every time when someone recommends the Camalots, it's in the #.5 - #3 range. Nothing about #.3 and #.4...
Some people even claim that #.3 is useless.
I use those small sizes a lot and I'm quite happy with them, so I don't get it:
What's the problem with those two sizes ? Why would you avoid using them ?
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Couloirman
Mar 3, 2009, 3:01 PM
Post #2 of 35
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its not that I hate my .4, I like it when I can find a perfect placement for it, its just that the head is too wide for the size crack its supposed to be camming. I have found bomber placements with the .4 and when I do they make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but most cracks around these parts aren't perfectly parallel at the correct width to engage all the lobes well. Just my $.02...
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shoo
Mar 3, 2009, 3:02 PM
Post #3 of 35
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They aren't useless. However, when you get below the .5, most people start looking into more micro-specific cams if at all. These usually have thinner heads and bodies which makes placing them easier.
When you have cracks that size, they also may tend to be more irregular, increasing options for passive gear.
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dr_feelgood
Mar 3, 2009, 3:30 PM
Post #4 of 35
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As has been stated, most people use a micro-specific cam for that range. I have .4-3 on my standard rack, and keep some overlap in the form of yellow and blue TCUs on the regular rack, occasionally going larger and smaller in the TCUs depending on the climb.
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kachoong
Mar 3, 2009, 4:15 PM
Post #5 of 35
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I prefer TCU's for those smaller sizes. The blue (#1) and yellow (#2) TCU's are similar in size to the 0.3 and 0.4 respectively. Also you need to consider that these smaller cams are rated for about 8-10kN (others are rated lower), which is less than the ideal but still fairly strong nonetheless.
I also think that the 0.5-3 range has been the norm on peoples racks longer than the 0.3 and 0.4 have been on the market.
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currupt4130
Mar 3, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #6 of 35
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When I find a place for it I'm happy. It just looks more secure than some smaller comes due to it's size. As everyone else noted though, it's size can be a problem. That being said, if I find a spot for it versus another cam, it's usually the first one to go because I know I can put my aliens elsewhere.
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granite_grrl
Mar 3, 2009, 4:21 PM
Post #7 of 35
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It's just that a lot of people prefer other brands for their small cams. Personally, I like TCUs and Metolius in general up to the #6 (green, ~same size as a #1 BD).
But there is a following for the small BD cams out there. It boils down to personal preferance.
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iron106
Mar 3, 2009, 4:27 PM
Post #8 of 35
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I like my .3 and .4.
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verticon
Mar 3, 2009, 4:39 PM
Post #9 of 35
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Thank you for your answers. I was just worried that it might be some problems with the small Camalots that I knew nothing of.
I also use DMM 4CU's for this size of crack (#0, #.5 & #1) because they overlap well with the Camalots, and I place either brand according to the "it depends" (TM) principle, but when I face a vertical crack I usually reach for the C4's.
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USnavy
Mar 4, 2009, 3:25 AM
Post #10 of 35
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I have both the .4 and .3 and I like them. I prefer the .3 over the C3 2 on cracks that can accomidate the .3 and the C3 2. However equivalent sized Aliens are a bit more versatile and thus I keep doubles of small Aliens and only a single set of the .3 and .4.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Mar 4, 2009, 5:10 AM)
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Tipton
Mar 4, 2009, 3:36 AM
Post #11 of 35
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USnavy wrote: I have both the .4 and .3 and I like them. I prefer the .3 over the C4 2 on cracks that can accomidate the .3 and the C4 2. However equivalent sized Aliens are a bit more versatile and thus I keep doubles of small Aliens and only a single set of the .3 and .4.
I think you mean you prefer the C4 .3 over the C3 #2. I like my .4 just fine, but I can definitely see how the head width would be an issue in such a small placement.
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chadcummings
Mar 4, 2009, 4:15 AM
Post #12 of 35
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i owen the old style bd .1 and .2 as well as the c4 .3 to #5. i rarely set the ..4 and under on the bd's. i jusr prefer tcu's and aliens for that range
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USnavy
Mar 4, 2009, 5:11 AM
Post #13 of 35
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Tipton wrote: USnavy wrote: I have both the .4 and .3 and I like them. I prefer the .3 over the C4 2 on cracks that can accomidate the .3 and the C4 2. However equivalent sized Aliens are a bit more versatile and thus I keep doubles of small Aliens and only a single set of the .3 and .4. I think you mean you prefer the C4 .3 over the C3 #2. I like my .4 just fine, but I can definitely see how the head width would be an issue in such a small placement.
Yes, C3, sorry.
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a-e-jones
Mar 4, 2009, 10:16 AM
Post #14 of 35
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i dont think the .3 is useless, but i find the #2 c3 places much easier
:edit for typo:
(This post was edited by a-e-jones on Mar 4, 2009, 10:17 AM)
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patto
Mar 4, 2009, 12:09 PM
Post #15 of 35
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It all depends where you climb. Personally I have never had a problem placing my #.3. In fact my #.3 is one of my favourite pieces, it is always absolutely bomber.
I don't consider #.3 to be a small cam anyway. I consider it to be at the edge of small cam territory.
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colatownkid
Mar 4, 2009, 1:42 PM
Post #16 of 35
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verticon wrote: The thread about BD #3 reminded me something that's bothering me. Every time when someone recommends the Camalots, it's in the #.5 - #3 range. Nothing about #.3 and #.4... Some people even claim that #.3 is useless. I use those small sizes a lot and I'm quite happy with them, so I don't get it: What's the problem with those two sizes ? Why would you avoid using them ?
this has been covered pretty well, but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet.
aside from the issue of .4 and .3 not fitting placements as well as micro-cams, there is a strength issue as well.
using BD micro-cams as a an example, the BD #2 C3 has a range that completely encompasses the .3 C4 (by a few millimeters). so, the way i see it, that makes it an either-or situation. the C3 fits in more places and is rated to 10kN while the C4 fits in less places and is rated to 8kN. for me the choice seemed pretty obvious. as i recall, the situation is similar for TCUs (if that's your preference). i can't speak to aliens, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened.
conclusion: i carry the .4 C4 and the #2 C3, but I don't carry the .3 C4.
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verticon
Mar 4, 2009, 4:45 PM
Post #18 of 35
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I've played with C3's a couple of times, but they just don't feel right: too much plastic which could break (I've seen a cracked sleeve), or get in the way when trying to plunge them deeper into the crack.
Beside that, I've seen a thread on rc.com about some problems with the trigger wires of some C3s.
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angry
Mar 4, 2009, 4:55 PM
Post #19 of 35
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A few thoughts.
The yellow alien is just a smidge smaller than a .4 camalot. It's nice to have both. Especially in sandstone. The green alien is also just a smidge smaller than the .3 camalot.
It's nice to know this and to be able to choose this difference. Especially in sandstone.
Also, the C3 of the same size may be stronger but is much more likely to blow out of the placement. Not an issue on bomber rock, but don't fool yourself that the extra 2kn makes you safer. You know, kinda like having a fast car with flat tires.
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xtrmecat
Mar 4, 2009, 5:03 PM
Post #20 of 35
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Got lots of pieces in this range and use em a lot, too. The .4 BD is Ok but the metolious of all the makes, hybrid and not. seem to work way better for me in every placement below the .4 range. I'm even considering selling the small BD's for this reason, I just only use em if the others are out doing their thing.
Hope this helps
Bob
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kachoong
Mar 4, 2009, 5:13 PM
Post #21 of 35
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angry wrote: A few thoughts. The yellow alien is just a smidge smaller than a .4 camalot. It's nice to have both. Especially in sandstone. The green alien is also just a smidge smaller than the .3 camalot. It's nice to know this and to be able to choose this difference. Especially in sandstone. Also, the C3 of the same size may be stronger but is much more likely to blow out of the placement. Not an issue on bomber rock, but don't fool yourself that the extra 2kn makes you safer. You know, kinda like having a fast car with flat tires.
Very true about the quality of the rock being a decisive factor. A larger camming range could also help a potential blow-out in softer rock. I also love having the choice in the smaller sized range (5-20mm). If I know the FF will be fairly soft and the placement finicky I'll most likely place the yellow/green aliens or one of the TCU's. If there's room for the placement and the FF could be 0.5 or more I like to put in the C3's or even a Ball-nutz.
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cchas
Mar 5, 2009, 3:08 PM
Post #22 of 35
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Just my worthless $0.02.
If you look at my rack, you would know my opinion. I have 8 0.4 C4's and 6 0.3 C4's and then below that I go with the C3's.
Just my opinion. Head, width, depends on the area you are climbing. Indian Creek, I've never had issues with head width. Never had an issue in the Flagstaff Area (except on one climb but it is in MUCH smaller sizes), or in Yosemite.
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ACJ
Mar 5, 2009, 3:47 PM
Post #23 of 35
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I love my .3 and .4 and definitely carry them over micro cams any day. If for some reason I wanted to swap them out for a smaller head, I would use the #2 c3 to replace the .3 and I have a few metolius pieces that are in the .4 range but would probably use a nut or tri-cam if possible.
All of this is with the mindset that the gear is already figured out a bit before climbing. When climbing something new I would carry the .3 and .4 without hesitation.
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shoo
Mar 5, 2009, 4:15 PM
Post #24 of 35
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cchas wrote: If you look at my rack, you would know my opinion. I have 8 0.4 C4's and 6 0.3 C4's and then below that I go with the C3's.
Have you ever placed all eight .4 C4's in one pitch? Maybe it's just because I live in the Northeast and my mind can't comprehend a splitter that thin lasting that long. I've never been to IC, so that would help explain my shock and disbelief.
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cchas
Mar 5, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #25 of 35
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Rubys Cafe at Indian Creek (full disclosure: haven't gotten it clean yet though) I placed maybe 6 or 7 or 8 of them, 1 red C3 off the ground, then if I re,mber right 2 to to the changing coners, 1 or 2 in the corner changes, 1 right after it 2 just below the roof, one in the roof, one just past the roof and then a 0.3 before the anchors. So that makes 8, but I'm a conservative leader. And that is a short route. There are many routes like that but are much longer.
(This post was edited by cchas on Mar 5, 2009, 4:44 PM)
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Sorry, couldn't resist! 
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