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Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits
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chezdillon


Mar 19, 2009, 6:16 AM
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Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits  (North_America: United_States: North_Carolina: Central: Pilot_Mountain)
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This is from the Pilot Mountain website.

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Limit imposed of 20 persons in Rock climbing Groups ...

Due to overcrowding and resource damage from large organized groups of rockclimbers, a limit of twenty people per group (which includes support staff climbers, and spectators) has been imposed at Pilot Mountain. Climbers in large groups are asked to practice courtesy and not block the trail, adjacent climbing routes, or spread out in large areas. These actions are causing conflict with other visitors and causing compaction, erosion, and loss of vegetation above and below the climbing area.

http://www.ncparks.gov/.../parks/pimo/main.php

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- Jeff


johnwesely


Mar 19, 2009, 6:25 AM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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20 is still a huge group. Why not make it 10?


sungam


Mar 19, 2009, 6:38 AM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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I was hoping it was going to limit groups to around 6 Laugh


gothcopter


Mar 19, 2009, 6:51 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
20 is still a huge group. Why not make it 10?

My thoughts exactly. Ten people is about the maximum number you could have there without causing problems -- and even ten is pushing it. Pilot is crowded enough without any large groups being there. It must have been one hell of a mob scene to precipitate this new rule!

My one concern is that whatever large groups have been desecrating Pilot will now move on to the other, good places to climb in North Carolina. Pilot has always been the "sacrificial lamb". Maybe we can convince them all to go to Crowders Mountain?


naitch


Mar 19, 2009, 7:31 AM
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Re: [sungam] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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I think it should be 4! Why the hell do people feel the need to climb in groups that large??? Stay in the gym or go to bingo night if your social needs aren't being met. Sheesh!


johnwesely


Mar 19, 2009, 7:35 AM
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Re: [sungam] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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That is probably more reasonable. I don't think that I have ever climbed in a group bigger than six.


seanpmccormick


Mar 19, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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This almost seems like an absurd request. I don't want to keep reiterating what's been said but I can't even imagine one group of twenty being organized to climb at a place as small as Pilot. Sorry, I reiterated...

I'm new to the area so I'm not really sure of the organized climbing that goes on. Does this issue need to be addressed with a climbing gym/shop/school/club that shows up in such massive groups?


Carnage


Mar 19, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: [seanpmccormick] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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they newbs will still throw up TR's on the bears, get up to the one with the roof crack on it (i dont remember the name) and flail on it. Its like 5.6 climbing up to this one 10a ish move near the top. They get up to it and are like, "damn, i almost had it!"

get off my fucking routes. ill give you anything 8 or under if you stay off anything above that.


sungam


Mar 19, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: [Carnage] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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Carnage wrote:
they newbs will still throw up TR's on the bears, get up to the one with the roof crack on it (i dont remember the name) and flail on it. Its like 5.6 climbing up to this one 10a ish move near the top. They get up to it and are like, "damn, i almost had it!"

get off my fucking routes. ill give you anything 8 or under if you stay off anything above that.
Dude, they can have the bears. Howz about they can have anything downhill of the 3 bears gully? That seems fair.


granite_grrl


Mar 19, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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Shocked

How big were the groups that they feel that limiting them to 20 would be a solution?

FWIW - I hate when people bring out groups of any size. I limit myself to climbing with one n00b at a time, I would appreciate if they could do the same.


TOP_ROPER87


Dec 17, 2009, 11:21 PM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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id say 8max.

i was there about a month ago and a large group was there on the ampitheater and the damn kids were pushing eachother and finaly one fall and knocked over a guy that was balying anouther guy on black and blue and he was pulled off the rock and took a huge fall that neaver should of happind. GET RIDE OF THE DAMN SCHOOLS COMEING UP THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


shockabuku


Dec 18, 2009, 2:08 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
Shocked

How big were the groups that they feel that limiting them to 20 would be a solution?

Wow, no shit. I can't imagine a group of 20 or more that doesn't (literally) own the location. I've seen that at the adult level and it's okay, but I can't imagine it with kids, and a low instructor to newbie ratio, in an open user environment.


Partner j_ung


Dec 18, 2009, 4:02 AM
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Re: [sungam] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
Carnage wrote:
they newbs will still throw up TR's on the bears, get up to the one with the roof crack on it (i dont remember the name) and flail on it. Its like 5.6 climbing up to this one 10a ish move near the top. They get up to it and are like, "damn, i almost had it!"

get off my fucking routes. ill give you anything 8 or under if you stay off anything above that.
Dude, they can have the bears. Howz about they can have anything downhill of the 3 bears gully? That seems fair.

The single best route at Pilot Mountain is downhill of the Bears.

Edit: and so is the best moderate.


(This post was edited by j_ung on Dec 18, 2009, 4:03 AM)


Rmsyll2


Oct 6, 2010, 7:09 AM
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Re: [chezdillon] Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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AS a matter of fact, there was a group of reportedly 25 Boy Scouts with about five "leaders" and about five climbing crew from Boone in the School Room section on Sat. Oct. 2 '10. They were quite considerate, and were incredibly there the entire day with no noticed rambunctious behavior. Notably: no damn dogs, just very focused climbers and watchers. The focus was to rappel, belay, and climb three routes to earn the merit badge.

I know of no way for the Park to control much of anything there. However, there is now a policy of checking permits particularly when the parking seems crowded, as was nicely done by the new ranger Nick. In over 100 visits in previous years, that was my first time to even see a Park person on the Trail, as others also noted. I did not see him find someone without a permit to see what would happen if so; but he did not, and said he does not, bother anyone who was too busy.

ll


Rmsyll2


Oct 7, 2010, 6:19 PM
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Re: Pilot Mountain, NC imposes climbing group size limits [In reply to]
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What Jeff posted was of course true--at the time. There have been no further more official actions, however. It is a quite complicated matter from their standpoint, involving "special use permits" per state regulations. A major limitation of the limitations is the matter of enforcement and sanctions: how do Park staff know, how do such users know, and what would be done about violations?

You might be relieved to know that "twenty" comes only from a previous policy at Crowder's, and seems much too high to some Park staff as well as to climbers. A particular problem with such restrictions would be who would be seen as the cause and the target. There are differences, from officials' standpoint, among commercial and non-profit and direct users. There would be problems from applying limits to types of groups, rather than to areas no matter who all is there.

At Pilot there is one place that does attract groups of the number cited, which I call Schoolroom and Annex, Jeff named it Little Amphitheater for his guide. That is where that Scout Troop was last Saturday. I have also seen assorted climbers filling the real Amphitheater area in a similar way, and a lot more obnoxiously imo in some cases, with violently barking and lunging dogs, radios, hammocks, crowding the Trail with no effort to get out of the way of other visitors, etc.

Pilot is indeed a public area, and no part of it belongs to climbers of any sort. The current administration is especially concerned about long-term impacts, as noted in the quoted announcement, and that goes for everyone. There are, for all that, more official and obligatory efforts reportedly "in the works". Any factual and decently presented messages to the Park or State office would be useful for those efforts.

LL


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