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beyond_gravity
Dec 22, 2002, 6:01 PM
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how does this thing work of waterfall ice? It's half the price of ice screws, but can it even be used on waterfall ice?
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brianthew
Dec 22, 2002, 8:08 PM
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They do work in waterfall ice, but I've been admonished my more experienced ice friends to avoid snargs...I guess they are 1) a hassle to remove and 2) harder to put in than screws. It also seems to be they are more prone to shattering the ice than a screw. Cheaper, yes, but harder to use.
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gunked
Dec 22, 2002, 8:21 PM
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I've used them and I've given them away. Both of them! As stated, they shatter the ice and are a royal pain in the arse to remove. Anything that shatters the ice more than necessary is, IMO, not the better way! (If I may borrow some of PTPP's lingo) They were great (I'm assuming) at one time. I would, however, consider them quite out-dated.
Jason
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beyond_gravity
Dec 22, 2002, 10:45 PM
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I dont have alot of money for screws...
most of the ice routes I climb will have a low angled section that I can get a no hands rest, and get off my front points.
Is it possible to drill the hole with an ice screw, remove it then hammer in the piton?
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gunked
Dec 23, 2002, 5:41 AM
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Depending on the ice conditions, the snargs could be a decent way to go. I still feel the need to remind you that pound-ins tend to fracture the ice far more than a screw. It might behoove you to climb and place pro under the tutelage of an experienced ice climber (if you're not already)
Fortunately and unfortunately, learning to judge ice comes with experience. I have learned this the hard way.
Ahhhh, who am I kidding, I haven't climbed much ice at all since I moved to California. Keep climbing, try to climb with more experienced climbers and utilize their rack as much as possible.
Jason
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gunked
Dec 23, 2002, 5:48 AM
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Oh yeah, sorry! I was so busy listening to myself type that I forgot to answer your question. I haven't tried placing a screw and then using the hole for a snarg, however, it sounds like it's probably a bad idea. It would make sense that the ice would just fracture all that much more and would be sitting in a hole that's too wide for it.
I do not consider myself an authority on this due to my lack of extensive experience with pound-ins. Maybe they are bomber in more situations. I am used to East Coast ice which is, generally, pretty brittle.
I'd wait to hear what another, more experienced, pound-in user has to say.
Good luck,
Jason
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tradklime
Dec 23, 2002, 10:11 PM
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Yes they can be used in waterfall ice. Depends on the conditions as far as how good they will be.
Pound-ins were very popular until scews became easier to place. Because they don't have large threads, they aren't as good as of a placement. I've heard peple say that pound-ins are better because they tend to compress layers of ice rather than pull them apart like a screw will. I don't think that is true with modern screws.
I understand the cost issue, but if you shop around you can find cheap screws. Try the euro.coms or look for some Omega screws. Screws will serve you better in the long run.
If you have a good stance and are limited on pro, consider putting in one or more v-threads with a screamer.
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beyond_gravity
Dec 24, 2002, 4:35 PM
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My rack is 1 Omega 22cm screw, and 2 Omega 17cm screws. This is less then ok!
It sounds like I shouldn't bother going the pound in route...
but I do have one more question about v-threads:
because of my limited rack (and experience, for that matter) i've been setting up my anchors with a V-thread and 22cm screw. Are V-threads significantly weaker then screws are? Of course then all depends on the ice conditions, but should I be using 2 v-threads and a screw equilzed insted??
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wallwombat
Feb 27, 2009, 12:09 AM
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Bump
How would these go in frozen turf/mud as opposed to ice?
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skiclimb
Feb 27, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Pretty good sometimes
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yodadave
Feb 27, 2009, 5:15 PM
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try warthogs instead, for frozen turf.
They may be hard to find but they are designed for frozen turf specifically.
OR the BDEL Spectres
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julio412
Mar 1, 2009, 7:10 AM
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I remember lowering off the 1st pitch of Titanium(?)
falls in Alberta on a single Snarg, 1st pitch ends in a avalance bowl.
Watching it flex was so unnerving I took a photo, so
people would know how I died.
Alittle while back there was a post of tests done on ice pro- some of the Snard- types just fell out.
You do though still see climbers in Scotland using
them.
If you use them,place them with the clip in hole facing up, this way you're using the strength of the steel tube and not just the welded eye( biner goes around the entire tube).
If you want to piss off your second; place a Snarg in a corner( they're great on lead for this as there's no handle to fight for clearance).
I've never known anyone who has fallen on one.
On fat ice shattering isn't a problem as the mass of ice can absorb the blows.
I haven't owned one in probably 7-10 years.
Buy good screws.
Best of luck
Mario
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tallnik
Mar 2, 2009, 10:06 PM
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here's a second vote for the Spectres for frozen turf...
Use them out in QC for early season ice - in turf/ or ice cracks like a piton.
Nik
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fresh
Mar 3, 2009, 3:27 PM
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[quote "beyond_gravity"]Are V-threads significantly weaker then screws are? [/quote]
it's my understanding that (1) in the same ice (and it all depends on the ice quality anyway), v-threads are significantly stronger than screws and (2) snargs are worthless.
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qwert
Mar 4, 2009, 1:47 PM
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fresh wrote: beyond_gravity wrote: Are V-threads significantly weaker then screws are? it's my understanding that (1) in the same ice (and it all depends on the ice quality anyway), v-threads are significantly stronger than screws and (2) snargs are worthless.
More here.
qwert
(This post was edited by qwert on Mar 4, 2009, 1:58 PM)
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EvilMonkey
Mar 30, 2009, 4:23 AM
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i just wanted to point out that screws, snargs, and spectres aren't your only options for pro. if you've got a slim rack, look for features such as icecycles and ice knobs to sling. of course, there's no way around it. you need screws. u can usually get BD turbo express deals on the blowouts page @ gearexpress.com, or try REI. they sometimes have Omega screws on sale. also check out e-bay, but watch out 4 screws with damaged teeth. i recommend paying the extra cash to get screws with knobs. just buy one every month or 2. at about $35-40 a piece, you should have a decent rack by next season
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graniteboy
Mar 31, 2009, 12:35 AM
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Hell, if you're gonna get into whacking "protection" like a SNARG into the ice, why not go all the way down that drain and get yerself some vintage 1970 WARTHOGS?
They have the capacity to hold an equally tiny load (maybe a couple hundred lbs on a good day, much like a snarg) and they look even sillier, and, liek a snarg, they shatter the hell out of fragile ice features.....
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EvilMonkey
Mar 31, 2009, 2:23 AM
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graniteboy wrote: Hell, if you're gonna get into whacking "protection" like a SNARG into the ice, why not go all the way down that drain and get yerself some vintage 1970 WARTHOGS? They have the capacity to hold an equally tiny load (maybe a couple hundred lbs on a good day, much like a snarg) and they look even sillier, and, liek a snarg, they shatter the hell out of fragile ice features.....
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graniteboy
Mar 31, 2009, 7:50 PM
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Because they quit making warthogs about a decade before they started making Video cameras, No. But the idea is the same....a really, really crappy piece of pro....even worse than the snarg. They're about 3/8" wide, 7 inches long, and, if placed well, might hold a light backpack for a short time.
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ACLSRN
Jul 5, 2011, 1:45 AM
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I have used the Lowe Snargs many years ago - mainly b/c they were less costly and could be pounded in fast.
If cold enuff they freeze in pretty quickly - but are a SOB to remove despite the fine 'threads' that they have on them. They used to have a 'cleaning channel' milled into the side of them to facilitate cleaning out the frozen ice once removed from the ice. Most times - we couldn't get them to unscrew easily and wound-up chopping them out.
But, they work - esp if you need to get something in FAST.
I was disappointed to see them no longer available from Lowe....not sure if CAMP picked them up now or what - I liked having a couple on my ice rack just in case.
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tolman_paul
Sep 1, 2011, 8:19 PM
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Simply put, they suck, and I have both the small dia and large dia snargs.
Several years back I picked up 1/2 dozen BD express screws, they were the old pre-handle design and at abotu 1/2 the price of current design. Even w/o the handles they were very easy to place and remove from waterfal ice. I've also used my partners new style express screws, and that little handle makes them even easier to place.
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