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rockclimber616
Mar 30, 2009, 4:42 PM
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pretty bad call on his part. But at least he survived and totally learned something! Keep it safe out there!
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graniteboy
Mar 30, 2009, 6:41 PM
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Although I can't claim to have ever equalled the supreme stupidity of this chap, running nylon on nylon as a main anchor point.....
I did once, years ago, take an 80 foot ice climbing groundfall, and walked away with just some cracked ribs and sprained ankle. Thin technical mixed climb, very little and very thin pro, etc.
OTOH, snow landings are often pretty damned soft. And I bounced a few times on the way down on snow ledges, lessenng the impact ...lesson learned.
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majid_sabet
Mar 30, 2009, 7:07 PM
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graniteboy wrote: Although I can't claim to have ever equalled the supreme stupidity of this chap, running nylon on nylon as a main anchor point..... I did once, years ago, take an 80 foot ice climbing groundfall, and walked away with just some cracked ribs and sprained ankle. Thin technical mixed climb, very little and very thin pro, etc. OTOH, snow landings are often pretty damned soft. And I bounced a few times on the way down on snow ledges, lessenng the impact ...lesson learned.
and what did you do ? lower on software ?
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iron106
Mar 30, 2009, 7:42 PM
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And that it broke when he climbed and not the others. What are the odds.
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graniteboy
Mar 30, 2009, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: and what did you do ? lower on software ?
Nope....it's called taking a leader fall on a serious mixed route with dicey protection.
The supreme stupidity I spoke of was in reference to the guy in the article you linked.
(This post was edited by graniteboy on Mar 30, 2009, 8:13 PM)
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shockabuku
Mar 30, 2009, 8:17 PM
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iron106 wrote: And that it broke when he climbed and not the others. What are the odds.
Obviously 1:1.
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shockabuku
Mar 30, 2009, 8:21 PM
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"His two friends both used the rig to climb up and down the Designator. By the time it was Boratenski's turn again, the nylon was primed to snap. Which is exactly what happened. "
Pretty glaring error on everyone's part. Others in the party should check the anchor prior to lowering from it.
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majid_sabet
Apr 3, 2009, 10:06 PM
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shockabuku wrote: "His two friends both used the rig to climb up and down the Designator. By the time it was Boratenski's turn again, the nylon was primed to snap. Which is exactly what happened. " Pretty glaring error on everyone's part. Others in the party should check the anchor prior to lowering from it.
Did he put a "V" in the ice and use a webbing to lower instead of running the nylon via "O" ring or a biner ?
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angry
Apr 3, 2009, 10:17 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: shockabuku wrote: "His two friends both used the rig to climb up and down the Designator. By the time it was Boratenski's turn again, the nylon was primed to snap. Which is exactly what happened. " Pretty glaring error on everyone's part. Others in the party should check the anchor prior to lowering from it. Did he put a "V" in the ice and use a webbing to lower instead of running the nylon via "O" ring or a biner ?
I've been up the Desi many many times. There is a tree a bit off to the left with probably 10 different slings and rings on it that accumulate over the season. Off to the right, there is a smaller bush that is good enough to rap off but it usually only has a sling or two on it.
In between these two is a boulder that anchors could be installed on but too much (even more) top-roping of the Desi would really suck.
I don't know which tree he anchored to, regardless, I guarantee it was not a V-thread. It's baffling how he made this mistake. I'm not going to call him stupid like so many others have but still, it's almost unbelievable as far as mistakes go.
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majid_sabet
Apr 3, 2009, 10:29 PM
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angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: shockabuku wrote: "His two friends both used the rig to climb up and down the Designator. By the time it was Boratenski's turn again, the nylon was primed to snap. Which is exactly what happened. " Pretty glaring error on everyone's part. Others in the party should check the anchor prior to lowering from it. Did he put a "V" in the ice and use a webbing to lower instead of running the nylon via "O" ring or a biner ? I've been up the Desi many many times. There is a tree a bit off to the left with probably 10 different slings and rings on it that accumulate over the season. Off to the right, there is a smaller bush that is good enough to rap off but it usually only has a sling or two on it. In between these two is a boulder that anchors could be installed on but too much (even more) top-roping of the Desi would really suck. I don't know which tree he anchored to, regardless, I guarantee it was not a V-thread. It's baffling how he made this mistake. I'm not going to call him stupid like so many others have but still, it's almost unbelievable as far as mistakes go.
I am still lost on what he rigid and how it fell apart.if this was ice climbing then was this anchor back in to some solid piece of rock or a tree if not, was it on the ice and if so, how was it attached.
this sort of stupid accident report writing makes me crazy.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Apr 3, 2009, 10:29 PM)
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reno
Apr 3, 2009, 10:42 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: I am still lost on what he rigid and how it fell apart.if this was ice climbing then was this anchor back in to some solid piece of rock or a tree if not, was it on the ice and if so, how was it attached.
Most likely scenario I can think of, given my knowledge of the Desi and the facts depicted in the story:
He topped out, untied, ran his rope through several slings that are on the tree to the left at the top, retied, and lowered. Several rounds of TR through webbing only weakened the webbing enough, and when he did his second lap, the webbing wore through completely, and he fell.
A silly mistake to make, and he's lucky he ain't dead.
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angry
Apr 3, 2009, 10:46 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: shockabuku wrote: "His two friends both used the rig to climb up and down the Designator. By the time it was Boratenski's turn again, the nylon was primed to snap. Which is exactly what happened. " Pretty glaring error on everyone's part. Others in the party should check the anchor prior to lowering from it. Did he put a "V" in the ice and use a webbing to lower instead of running the nylon via "O" ring or a biner ? I've been up the Desi many many times. There is a tree a bit off to the left with probably 10 different slings and rings on it that accumulate over the season. Off to the right, there is a smaller bush that is good enough to rap off but it usually only has a sling or two on it. In between these two is a boulder that anchors could be installed on but too much (even more) top-roping of the Desi would really suck. I don't know which tree he anchored to, regardless, I guarantee it was not a V-thread. It's baffling how he made this mistake. I'm not going to call him stupid like so many others have but still, it's almost unbelievable as far as mistakes go. I am still lost on what he rigid and how it fell apart.if this was ice climbing then was this anchor back in to some solid piece of rock or a tree if not, was it on the ice and if so, how was it attached. this sort of stupid accident report writing makes me crazy.
The "Rigid Designator" is a waterfall. When it gets cold, it freezes. With the use of crampons and ice axes, people climb this frozen waterfall and have since the 70's. It never sees sun, ever. It didn't fall apart that day, the anchor which was on a tree, which was about 2.5ft in diameter, which was growing in the ground, got cut due to nylon on nylon friction.
The trees over the top are solid. It's very easy to toprope off of them.
In this case the climber put the rope directly through slings without using a caribiner or rap ring. Moving nylon (the rope) over static nylon (the slings) can and will burn/cut. After a few climbers used this setup, it finally cut through and he fell.
This is one of the clearest news reports on an accident I've ever read. Really, there's nothing left to explain. He had a brain fart, threaded the nylon, and nearly died.
Here's a pic of the top of the desi, if it helps.
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EvilMonkey
Apr 3, 2009, 11:53 PM
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In reply to: I am still lost on what he rigid and how it fell apart.if this was ice climbing then was this anchor back in to some solid piece of rock or a tree if not, was it on the ice and if so, how was it attached. this sort of stupid accident report writing makes me crazy.
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bandycoot
Apr 4, 2009, 12:18 AM
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What blows me away in this story is that the guy has been climbing as long as I have. How in the world can your climbing knowledge stagnate that severely? A decade and he hadn't figured out that top roping nylon on nylon like that could be catastrophic? Jeez! When John Long's new anchor book came out, I owned it within a month and read it immediately. When I see threads or articles on safety or accidents, I read them. I know that I'm sometimes the other extreme, but don't let your knowledge stagnate people! Keep learning! Don't assume you know everything because you haven't been hurt YET. Be curious! Ask questions! Read! Listen to other people's criticism of your anchors and try to find out if they're right. Don't be afraid to criticize other people's anchors, but in a friendly let's learn something sort of way! Stay safe!
Josh
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fresh
Apr 6, 2009, 2:41 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: this sort of stupid accident report writing makes me crazy.
it'd be interesting to know the train of thought that went through this guy's head. I mean, I make mistakes every time I go out climbing. but damn. maybe he was worried about clipping only one biner at the top? we get it beaten into our heads so much that there must be redundancy in every system that we forget to use common sense. just speculation though.
In reply to: Obviously 1:1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odds
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