Hi

I was top roping on some sport climbs in the Alabama Hills over the weekend for the first time.

The ones we did all featured two open hooks at the top which i've never top roped off of before. My leader went up and hooked up two draws to the hooks and ran the rope through them.

When done one of us went up, clipped to the anchor (I think we had to just put carabiner on the hook), cleaned draws, and put rope right on hooks for lowering, unclip, get lowered.

Is this the proper methodology for top roping off open hooks?

Seems a bit sketchy, but I guess hooks are commonplace?

thank you so much

Here is some stuff to read through, there is a ton of information out there on them. Only having a couple days total of sport climbing under my belt (I stick to trad, ice, alpine, and aid), I will not spew information about something I know nothing about.

http://www.safeclimbing.org/...ation/blindfaith.htm

http://books.google.com/...=result&resnum=4

http://books.google.com/...p;resnum=9#PPA105,M1

When anchoring on open shuts like this, you can girth hitch runners to the shut rather than clipping onto it with a carabiner. With a carabiner on an open shut, there is a chance that the quickdraw could be lifted up and off of the shut -- particularly if someone climbs above the anchor. While the chance of this happening is pretty slim, the girth hitch method practically eliminates the risk.

As far as lowering off the shuts, if you know how to rappel and are comfortable doing so, then that is the preferred way to get down. Rappelling off and then pulling the unweighted rope down will put less wear on the shuts. If you go to a heavily trafficked area that uses shuts, you'll probably see some that have notches in the hooks from people lowering off them repeatedly. But if you're ever in a situation where you feel lowering will be safer than rappelling, go ahead and lower. (Keep in mind that a rope set up for rappelling or lowering can be lifted out of the shuts if you step up above the anchor.)

... called open cold shuts.

When anchoring on open shuts like this, you can girth hitch runners to the shut rather than clipping onto it with a carabiner. With a carabiner on an open shut, there is a chance that the quickdraw could be lifted up and off of the shut -- particularly if someone climbs above the anchor. While the chance of this happening is pretty slim, the girth hitch method practically eliminates the risk.

As far as lowering off the shuts, if you know how to rappel and are comfortable doing so, then that is the preferred way to get down. Rappelling off and then pulling the unweighted rope down will put less wear on the shuts. If you go to a heavily trafficked area that uses shuts, you'll probably see some that have notches in the hooks from people lowering off them repeatedly. But if you're ever in a situation where you feel lowering will be safer than rappelling, go ahead and lower. (Keep in mind that a rope set up for rappelling or lowering can be lifted out of the shuts if you step up above the anchor.)

I have never understood this clear contradiction in nomenclature.

Open shut. WTF?!!1?

I agree, these should not be used as anchors, any persons life should be worth more than the 79 cents you would save by using hardware store anchors.

Description: This looks like an open link, one end of which is male, the other female. It comes zinc-plated and galvanized.

Buying information: Cold shuts are available in various sizes, and are used to connect chain lengths or hooks.

How-to hints: To close a cold shut, use a heavy hammer to pound the male end into the female end. For more strength, weld the connecting point.

# (a.) Closed while too cold to become thoroughly welded; -- said of a forging or casting.
# (n.) An imperfection caused by such insufficient welding.

Oh I like those ideas yes I think I'd trust a nice thick nylon runner girth hitched on each with maybe two oval carabiners per runner.

good point on rap, yes I"d prefer to not wear down the community hooks.

Well, my understanding is that the piece of metal is called a "cold shut." The fact that it is open is a reference to it's state.

Jumbo shrimp anyone?

While there was some cost savings, the motivation for open cold shuts was mostly due to pure laziness. The idea was that the leader would get to the shuts, drop a loop of rope in, and be lowered off immediately. No annoying, time consuming anchor/untie/theread/retie/lower sequence. Also the practice (hard to call it an ethic) at the time this type of anchor went in was that each person in the party would lead the route. The rope was pulled after each person lowered off, so there was actually less wear than if everyone TR'd.

Although not nearly as robust as the newer Petzl and Fixe stuff, a properly shut hardware store cold shut is adequate as a TR or rap anchor. An open cold shut otoh deforms to straight at around 800lb. I agree that at this point, open shuts should be considered junk and replaced with a proper anchor.

So, how many of these straightened out open shuts have you seen on routes?

A hardware store open-shut on a route is shit. The sooner it gets replaced with something real, the better.

If you wear it out sooner, maybe the route equipper will not have his head in his ass next time and replace it with something worth while.

Lower and TR with impunity. Junk deserves to be treated as such.

I hate cold shuts and never use them for bolt hangers or anchors.

Angry, thank you for stating what need to be said

Yes, Angry, thank you for supporting jeepnphreak's irrational opinion. He apparently feels much better now.

Jay

Yes, actually I do feel better. thanks for asking.
I just feel that there are better anchor options than cold shuts, considering that the articles I have read says that cold shuts can fail as low as 800 lbs. they are probably not going to fail on a top rope set up but you sure would not want to take much of a fall on those things.