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mushroom
May 1, 2009, 1:45 AM
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As I'm struggling to pull this wall gear together, I got some questions about hauling and the use of a swivel. Still, I am only a theorist but I'm trying to get the necessaries together for walls this summer in the valley. As you can guess, I got any number of expenses right now and pieces of gear that would be helpful, so ultimately I'm trying to be conservative with money spending.
Questions:
1. I read that if you are using a far-end hauler then a swivel is pretty necessary. Is this true?
2. I read they aren't so necessary for normal 1:1 or 2:1 hauling from the upper anchor. What's your opinion?
3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company, but I have seen their price tag of $30. Hardware stores sell store (2200lbs WL) swivels. They are 8.50. It seems like the pieces don't rotate well under weight (there's def some friction). But really I don't know much about swivels.
so can I pretty much skip the swivel? I'm planning on having aiders and daisies made of out tied webbing at this point.... would the $30 swivel really make the difference? It would be really phatty to be able to make a far-end hauler.
I'm not sure what I'm climbing yet.. Zodiac? LT? Washing Column? Probably start with some grade V and I'd love to do a VI.
Nick
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pbcowboy77
May 1, 2009, 4:05 AM
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mushroom wrote: As I'm struggling to pull this wall gear together, I got some questions about hauling and the use of a swivel. Still, I am only a theorist but I'm trying to get the necessaries together for walls this summer in the valley. As you can guess, I got any number of expenses right now and pieces of gear that would be helpful, so ultimately I'm trying to be conservative with money spending. Questions: 1. I read that if you are using a far-end hauler then a swivel is pretty necessary. Is this true? 2. I read they aren't so necessary for normal 1:1 or 2:1 hauling from the upper anchor. What's your opinion? 3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company, but I have seen their price tag of $30. Hardware stores sell store (2200lbs WL) swivels. They are 8.50. It seems like the pieces don't rotate well under weight (there's def some friction). But really I don't know much about swivels. so can I pretty much skip the swivel? I'm planning on having aiders and daisies made of out tied webbing at this point.... would the $30 swivel really make the difference? It would be really phatty to be able to make a far-end hauler. I'm not sure what I'm climbing yet.. Zodiac? LT? Washing Column? Probably start with some grade V and I'd love to do a VI. Nick
If your going with home made gear ditch the swivel. There's no real need for it unless your doing a route that traverses a bunch. I did use the far end hauler without a swivel but never needed to use the system more that a foot or so and never had a problem without the swivel. If your gonna do WFLT then you really don't need it.
Send me a email and let me know when your gonna head to the big ditch. I have extra aiders and daisies I can let you barrow if you promise to get to the top of a climb and ship them back when you get your own...
Zac
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rschap
May 2, 2009, 4:43 AM
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I thought the same thing before I bought a petzl swivel. I looked at a lot of different hardware store swivels and I wouldn’t trust hanging all my gear from one of them. You don’t really need one anyways, it’s more of an unnecessary luxury.
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graniteboy
May 4, 2009, 11:36 PM
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Hardware store swivel.........8.50$
The look on your face when that taiwanese hardware store pot metal snaps and your haulbag launches into space just before the dripping, rainy bivy.........Priceless....
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msiddens
May 4, 2009, 11:55 PM
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lol, good one graniteboy. Yeah, sorta how I took it. I'd stay away from the unknown. I'm sure it's plenty strong but.......
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mushroom
May 5, 2009, 12:10 AM
Post #6 of 24
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ya, I got a good sense of what would hold me and ya ya. Hate too see my hard earned goods hit the deck. But knowing what I do about chunks of metal and their ability to suspend heavy weights, I really wouldn't have doubted this swivel and its abilities. I'm pretty sure farmers use that sort of thing to drag far heavier things around than haul bags.
It seems like the sentiment is that the swivel isn't that important. I wasn't sure if I'd get responses like "better have a swivel or you will have plenty of problems"
sounds like I'm gtg without a swivel.
thanks for the input
Nick
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ptlong
May 5, 2009, 12:18 AM
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Probably it wouldn't break. But you said it didn't look it would rotate under load which pretty much negates its usefulness don't you think?
Anyhow as has been said you don't need a swivel. Sometimes on a low angle traverse you lower out the bag and the line gets all clustered as the pig spins on the slab. A swivel would be nice there but you curse and deal with it. On LT or Zodiac or SFWC or Prow you don't need a swivel. For those routes even if you had one it would be better to leave it at home.
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kennoyce
May 8, 2009, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: I'm planning on having aiders and daisies made of out tied webbing at this point....
real aiders and daisies will be much more of a help to you than a swivel. Ditch the swivel and get yourself some decent aiders, daisies, and an adjustable fifi.
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shimanilami
May 8, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Are you spending the summer in the valley? If so, cruise Camp 4 and ask if anyone has wall gear they don't want. You'd be surprised.
One time I was at the top of El Cap and a couple of Euros topped out on the Nose. They basically abandoned their entire haul bag, gear ... everything. I asked, "What's up with that?" and one guy told me, "I'm done and don't ever want to see that shit ever again." These Euros buy all this killer wall gear, fly it all the way over to the States, hump it up to the base, stand in line for 5 days so they can get in the conga line on the Nose, and then find out the the "greatest climb in the world" was nothing but suffering. Then they bail. Score for us!
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wallrat
May 11, 2009, 1:26 AM
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I'd suppose something around sixty million trips have been done up the walls without a swivel.......save your money.
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summerprophet
May 11, 2009, 6:27 PM
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mushroom wrote: I'm not sure what I'm climbing yet.. Zodiac? LT? Washing Column? Probably start with some grade V and I'd love to do a VI.
None of these routes would need a swivel.
If the topo shows a bag lower out through a traverse, or is less than vertical, they are usefull, otherwise you can certainly get by without them.
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the_climber
May 11, 2009, 7:18 PM
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When a swivel is needed that is exactly what skinner and I use.
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USnavy
May 13, 2009, 11:11 AM
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mushroom wrote: 3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company,
http://www.google.com/...esnum=1&ct=title
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 13, 2009, 11:12 AM)
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apeman_e
May 13, 2009, 11:35 AM
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Hua??
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dingus
May 13, 2009, 11:47 AM
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graniteboy wrote: Hardware store swivel.........8.50$ The look on your face when that taiwanese hardware store pot metal snaps and your haulbag launches into space just before the dripping, rainy bivy.........Priceless....
On Yose trade routes in season there is almost always someone below. The bag could kill someone - easily.
I've never used a swivel in the walls I've done. The Nose is sporta traversy and the bag certainly rolls on the pendulum pitches, twists the shit out of the haul line.
Deal with it.
If I were to use one it would be the Pretzel model, or something similar.
I don't want to kill someone to save $21.50.
Bullets are cheaper anyway.
DMT
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graniteboy
May 13, 2009, 4:30 PM
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Agreed. A falling haulbag could end up not only killing a lower down party, but also your own party in the face of a storm.
I've never used a swivel on valley walls either. I think our OP has decided to put his money into more important stuff, like some real aiders and daisys.
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altelis
May 14, 2009, 6:11 PM
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USnavy wrote: mushroom wrote: 3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company, Hua? We carry some four different models in our store and there must be 50 some on the Internet. http://www.google.com/...esnum=1&ct=title
how does telling him that there are swivels in your store in HI or that the internet has many for sale help him ACTUALLY TOUCH ONE before purchasing?!?!
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mushroom
May 18, 2009, 9:00 AM
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fux ya! just ordered me up some metolius easy daisies.
Me and my good pal decided on the Zodiac. I was feeling good until I saw a recent photo TR. I'm so fucking scared now! Holy shit I can't wait! I've dreamt of the Zodiac 2 nights in a row now and I'm totally awake at 5am right now......
No sleep brings out the genius [edit: and spelling issues].
(This post was edited by mushroom on May 18, 2009, 9:03 AM)
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USnavy
May 18, 2009, 12:50 PM
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altelis wrote: USnavy wrote: mushroom wrote: 3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company, Hua? We carry some four different models in our store and there must be 50 some on the Internet. http://www.google.com/...esnum=1&ct=titlehow does telling him that there are swivels in your store in HI or that the internet has many for sale help him ACTUALLY TOUCH ONE before purchasing?!?!
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 18, 2009, 12:52 PM)
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altelis
May 18, 2009, 1:02 PM
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mushroom wrote: As I'm struggling to pull this wall gear together, I got some questions about hauling and the use of a swivel. Still, I am only a theorist but I'm trying to get the necessaries together for walls this summer in the valley. As you can guess, I got any number of expenses right now and pieces of gear that would be helpful, so ultimately I'm trying to be conservative with money spending. Questions: 1. I read that if you are using a far-end hauler then a swivel is pretty necessary. Is this true? 2. I read they aren't so necessary for normal 1:1 or 2:1 hauling from the upper anchor. What's your opinion? 3. I've never held a swivel produced by a climbing company, but I have seen their price tag of $30. Hardware stores sell store (2200lbs WL) swivels. They are 8.50. It seems like the [hardware store] pieces don't rotate well under weight (there's def some friction). But really I don't know much about swivels. so can I pretty much skip the swivel? I'm planning on having aiders and daisies made of out tied webbing at this point.... would the $30 swivel really make the difference? It would be really phatty to be able to make a far-end hauler. I'm not sure what I'm climbing yet.. Zodiac? LT? Washing Column? Probably start with some grade V and I'd love to do a VI. Nick
You're right, how could I have ever thought that the OP was looking to physically hold a swivel produced by a climbing company? I must be absolutely bonkers.....
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atg200
Jun 18, 2009, 3:58 PM
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mushroom wrote: fux ya! just ordered me up some metolius easy daisies. Me and my good pal decided on the Zodiac. I was feeling good until I saw a recent photo TR. I'm so fucking scared now! Holy shit I can't wait! I've dreamt of the Zodiac 2 nights in a row now and I'm totally awake at 5am right now...... No sleep brings out the genius [edit: and spelling issues].
Have you ever aid climbed before? If not, don't worry too much about the Zodiac. You'll only do the first pitch before you bail.
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mushroom
Jun 26, 2009, 11:55 PM
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You are a bad spirit to have present. Keep negativity to yourself, lamer. The key to rock climbing is going beyond, and it helps to have encouragement. I don't think I would send such bad vibes to someone who wanted to do something so noble and challenging.
Zodiac didn't happen, not yet, but SoFaWaCo did and I had no troubles with the Kor roof. I doubt a measily pitch like p1 of Zodiac would have sent me bailing. I got a good look at it on my way to the East Butt. Get off the internet and go send, eh?
If I had the #2 beaks, hooks, and ledge I'd give the route a go, but as of right now I don't know where my friend is.
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atg200
Jul 2, 2009, 2:40 PM
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Nice job on the South Face, and keep getting the mileage in. I've spent too much time stuck behind total gumbie clusterfucks on walls to be supportive of people wanting to jump on big routes without paying their dues.
They key to rock climbing is going beyond after you have a solid set of experience. They key to keeping YOSAR busy is to go beyond without it.
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