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notapplicable
May 23, 2009, 5:35 PM
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$20 is on it's way via snail mail.
Thanks for donating your time and equipment to this whole affair.
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majid_sabet
May 23, 2009, 6:08 PM
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So I was mentioning something about Alien to few mountain rescuers from France today who were visiting the area and they said they have few Aliens in their rack but they never heard of anything in Europe about them so I asked if I could see their rack and ohhh BOOOOOYYYYYYYY
These French Rangers were not happy.I guess,they are going to send a bunch back to CCH that fits in to recall category.
Here are few pictures of their rack and a broken one.
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gimmeslack
May 23, 2009, 6:26 PM
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$20 headed your way via paypal. It's a small price to pay to have some "independent" testing done. I hope everyone else who uses Aliens agrees.
If you come up short on cams, I'll sacrifice one of mine. Let's see how the cash/donation thing goes.
Majid, what's the story on decapitated cam?
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sungam
May 23, 2009, 7:15 PM
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notapplicable wrote: Thanks for donating your time and equipment to this whole affair.
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dynosore
May 23, 2009, 7:20 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: To adatesman and altelis: (4) Maybe there's some new braze-eating acid that occurs naturally in Gunks rock that nobody knows about.
Yes, this makes sense. Clearly you have a good grasp of metallurgy and brazing.
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dynosore
May 23, 2009, 7:26 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: adatesman wrote: In a word, no. A brazed wire rope connection can be up to 95-100% the strength rating of the wire rope, but that assumes a properly executed joint with proper flux, temperature, filler, etc. And seeing as the size wire rope spec'd for the stem you're needing the entirety of the wire rope's rated strength. Sorry Aric, you're pulling stuff out of your butt here. You clearly don't understand the mechanism of failure when the system is compromised. This isn't stuff you're going to find in a text book since they deal with. Please do some more research. Breaking a couple of cams really means nothing.
http://www.wwewirerope.com/aircraftcable/
Given the rated strength of the cams, and the diameter cable they're using, they need pretty much 100% cable strength i.e. no failure of the brazing, but instead a breakage of the cable at max load.
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dynosore
May 23, 2009, 7:43 PM
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angry wrote: Just to clarify, even though you can't pinpoint Laramie, you're still thinking that Sogdiana is from CCH? Other than the writing style is there more evidence? I only ask because most eastern block euros write the same. A few alien threads back, I posted an analogy that's right on. Imagine that for the same price, you can buy a new Porsche or a Camry. The caveat is that you have to test the brakes on the Porsche yourself as they could catastrophically fail. Of course if they fail the test, they will send you a new Porsche that you'll again have to test the brakes on. So do you get the slow economical car that you'll never have to worry about maintenance on or do you go for legendary performance but accept that you'll need to be a more hands on owner? Neither decision is more correct, those are just your choices.
Good analogy, except you should have used Jaguar. Beautiful and fast car, except they can drive themselves to the repair shop since they're so familiar with it. No matter how great are to drive, I'll never own another. If Porsche had catastrophic brake failures, I'd be posting from heaven.com 
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adatesman
Moderator
May 23, 2009, 7:45 PM
Post #383 of 713
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dynosore wrote: roy_hinkley_jr wrote: adatesman wrote: In a word, no. A brazed wire rope connection can be up to 95-100% the strength rating of the wire rope, but that assumes a properly executed joint with proper flux, temperature, filler, etc. And seeing as the size wire rope spec'd for the stem you're needing the entirety of the wire rope's rated strength. Sorry Aric, you're pulling stuff out of your butt here. You clearly don't understand the mechanism of failure when the system is compromised. This isn't stuff you're going to find in a text book since they deal with. Please do some more research. Breaking a couple of cams really means nothing. Given the rated strength of the cams, and the diameter cable they're using, they need pretty much 100% cable strength i.e. no failure of the brazing, but instead a breakage of the cable at max load.
And as Rocknice2 posted a page back, Yellow through Gold Aliens spec a breaking strength greater than the typical breaking strength of the cable used to make their stems.
Sigh.
So many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.
EDIT- At least according to the CCH website. I suspect there's a typo on their chart and I haven't actually measured the cables to see if its right.
(This post was edited by adatesman on May 23, 2009, 7:50 PM)
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majid_sabet
May 23, 2009, 7:51 PM
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gimmeslack wrote: $20 headed your way via paypal. It's a small price to pay to have some "independent" testing done. I hope everyone else who uses Aliens agrees. If you come up short on cams, I'll sacrifice one of mine. Let's see how the cash/donation thing goes. Majid, what's the story on decapitated cam?
The ranger said he took a minor fall and the cam popped.
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dynosore
May 23, 2009, 7:52 PM
Post #385 of 713
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20 dollahs coming your way.
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adatesman
Moderator
May 23, 2009, 7:58 PM
Post #386 of 713
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You know, it just occurred to me that we're talking a couple hundred bucks here so in the interest of transparency I'm going to keep a list here in this post of who's volunteered how much. Last thing I need on top of this mess is accusations of scamming people...  
For the most part the usernames will be from RC, but there's a couple of people I know only from other sites and will use those names instead. See EDIT below Stuff's coming in through posts here, PMs, email and random Paypal payments, so if I somehow manage to miss adding you to the list let me know. Its going to be confusing, so bear with me.
Thx.
-a.
EDIT- If/when you send something kindly let me know your username and from where so I don't keep double counting people. Thx.
EDITx2- Seems I overlooked something rather important... Some of you may have decent relationships with CCH and not want to have your name listed as having contributed to this testing. I've gone ahead and moved the list offline and will keep a running total here in this post but not include any reference to who or where they are. This will make my life a bit difficult, so be sure to include information when you contact me by email/PM/PP/posting about who you are and where you're from so I don't double count anybody. As I said before, my wife will kill me if I end up short on this as I still am in the doghouse for the 14 pieces of used gear I bought for testing in January (from which the Purple Alien came and where most of the forthcoming test results from the NRR are from). If anyone wants to see the list I'll gladly provide it, provided they have no affiliation with CCH or intention to pass it along to them. I absolutely don't want to screw someone over with this and am trying to do whatever I can to prevent that from happening.
Updated 5/25/09 @ 6:00pm
(This post was edited by adatesman on May 25, 2009, 3:04 PM)
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notapplicable
May 23, 2009, 8:27 PM
Post #387 of 713
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I was thinking about the whole scam or fraud accusation thing earlier. If a tested cam fails in epic fashion, you can guarantee at least one person will claim you bribed a CCH employee to slip you factory rejects.
Gotta love the internet!
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rocknice2
May 23, 2009, 8:38 PM
Post #388 of 713
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Maybe we can hire this guy for quality control,
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sungam
May 23, 2009, 11:42 PM
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Hey A-man
Are we using the same screening accounts as last time (via the hungry children charity front) for moving the cash?
Everything' as you asked - with the added "danger pay" of 25% the original. That brings the total sum to just of 24 grand.
I'm sure that I don't need to stress that you only know me through this site, and that you know nothing of suncam's need to take over the alien patent before metolious. The cams will be delivered at the same dead-drop as the orange one used in last year's photo shoot, below trash can next to the third bench on the right when entering from the south.
Thanks again for helping us put these guys out of business. Suncam industries will be like a phoenix arising from the ashes of CCH.
-Magnus "Suncam" Johnson
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sungam
May 23, 2009, 11:42 PM
Post #390 of 713
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SHITFUCK! That was meant to be a PM!
Now I'm truely fucked 
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jt512
May 23, 2009, 11:51 PM
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sungam wrote: Hey A-man Are we using the same screening accounts as last time (via the hungry children charity front) for moving the cash? Everything' as you asked - with the added "danger pay" of 25% the original. That brings the total sum to just of 24 grand. I'm sure that I don't need to stress that you only know me through this site, and that you know nothing of suncam's need to take over the alien patent before metolious. The cams will be delivered at the same dead-drop as the orange one used in last year's photo shoot, below trash can next to the third bench on the right when entering from the south. Thanks again for helping us put these guys out of business. Suncam industries will be like a phoenix arising from the ashes of CCH. -Magnus "Suncam" Johnson
You should have posted this with a Russian "accent." As I have learned, the most important thing is to leave out the articles. For instance: "Suncam industrities will be like phoenix rising from ashes of CCH." Gives it a nice Nadia Diana ring.
Jay
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kheegster
May 24, 2009, 10:46 AM
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This is kheegster from SP. I'm willing to chip in $5 (impoverished student :( ). I'm writing out a check to send via snail mail now.
I'm actually going to hit the Gunks on Tuesday, and will drop by Rock & Snow as my partner needs to rent a helmet. Will you be doing the actual testing in Rock & Snow?
p.s. I just mentioned this collection on SP, but I don't feel at liberty to post your address etc there. Perhaps you want to post your details there for any SPers who might want to contribute?
(This post was edited by kheegster on May 24, 2009, 10:50 AM)
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adatesman
Moderator
May 24, 2009, 11:31 AM
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kheegster wrote: This is kheegster from SP. I'm willing to chip in $5 (impoverished student :( ). I'm writing out a check to send via snail mail now. I'm actually going to hit the Gunks on Tuesday, and will drop by Rock & Snow as my partner needs to rent a helmet. Will you be doing the actual testing in Rock & Snow? p.s. I just mentioned this collection on SP, but I don't feel at liberty to post your address etc there. Perhaps you want to post your details there for any SPers who might want to contribute?
Thanks Kheegster. I don't know how much the folks on ST will care given their response to the link to this posted over there, but I'll drop my info over there in a bit just in case.
Oops, read SP as ST...  The folks on ST didn't really seem to care, but the conversation on SP was pretty good. I'll go drop my addy over there instead.
Hmm... I was trying to make it seem that it wasn't R&S I was heading to as I hate to drag Rich into this even more than I have already (and avoid creating a scene), but yeah, that's where I'm headed on Tuesday. I don't know if they've got a spot out back to do the testing in (the puller's WAY to big to try and take into the store), but it will be happening up there somewhere.
(This post was edited by adatesman on May 24, 2009, 11:45 AM)
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spikeddem
May 24, 2009, 11:34 AM
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Aric, what are your interests in the tests? Are you looking to check the consistency of the braze wickings?
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adatesman
Moderator
May 24, 2009, 11:41 AM
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spikeddem wrote: Aric, what are your interests in the tests? Are you looking to check the consistency of the braze wickings?
Not really. Its more a quick check to see if faulty gear can be found in brand new gear sitting on the shelf for sale. It just happens that the amount of wicking of braze on the stem is somewhat indicative of overheating, as the capillary action and wetting of the braze to the cable is enhanced by an increase in temperature of the cable (which has a tenancy to weaken it). I'll also be looking for brazes that look underfilled, porous, underheated, etc.
-a.
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spikeddem
May 24, 2009, 11:48 AM
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adatesman wrote: spikeddem wrote: Aric, what are your interests in the tests? Are you looking to check the consistency of the braze wickings? Not really. Its more a quick check to see if faulty gear can be found in brand new gear sitting on the shelf for sale. It just happens that the amount of wicking of braze on the stem is somewhat indicative of overheating, as the capillary action and wetting of the braze to the cable is enhanced by an increase in temperature of the cable (which has a tenancy to weaken it). I'll also be looking for brazes that look underfilled, porous, underheated, etc. -a.
I see.
Do you plan on cutting open all of them for cross-sectional views? At least, if they exhibit a similar mode of failure to the red alien discussed in this thread.
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adatesman
Moderator
May 24, 2009, 11:58 AM
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spikeddem wrote: adatesman wrote: spikeddem wrote: Aric, what are your interests in the tests? Are you looking to check the consistency of the braze wickings? Not really. Its more a quick check to see if faulty gear can be found in brand new gear sitting on the shelf for sale. It just happens that the amount of wicking of braze on the stem is somewhat indicative of overheating, as the capillary action and wetting of the braze to the cable is enhanced by an increase in temperature of the cable (which has a tenancy to weaken it). I'll also be looking for brazes that look underfilled, porous, underheated, etc. -a. I see. Do you plan on cutting open all of them for cross-sectional views? At least, if they exhibit a similar mode of failure to the red alien discussed in this thread.
Everything's getting the works no matter the outcome. Pics before, pics in the fixture, pics after, datalogs, post-test cross sectioning and possibly video as well.
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sungam
May 24, 2009, 11:59 AM
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adatesman wrote: spikeddem wrote: adatesman wrote: spikeddem wrote: Aric, what are your interests in the tests? Are you looking to check the consistency of the braze wickings? Not really. Its more a quick check to see if faulty gear can be found in brand new gear sitting on the shelf for sale. It just happens that the amount of wicking of braze on the stem is somewhat indicative of overheating, as the capillary action and wetting of the braze to the cable is enhanced by an increase in temperature of the cable (which has a tenancy to weaken it). I'll also be looking for brazes that look underfilled, porous, underheated, etc. -a. I see. Do you plan on cutting open all of them for cross-sectional views? At least, if they exhibit a similar mode of failure to the red alien discussed in this thread. Everything's getting the works no matter the outcome. Pics before, pics in the fixture, pics after, datalogs, post-test cross sectioning and possibly video as well.
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