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what to do in this rappel situation?
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tedman


Jun 1, 2009, 9:16 AM
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what to do in this rappel situation?
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so say you have to bail on an alpine climb. you build your anchor and your buddy raps down first. While on rappel, he gets struck by lightning, or KO'd by rockfall, but either his rap backup stops him or he hits the knots at the end of the rope. what the heck are you supposed to do? The rope is fully weighted so you cant just rap down after him The only thing I can come up with is kind of down-prussicing, any better solutions?


scrapedape


Jun 1, 2009, 9:22 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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I suppose you could construct a haul system to get his corpse back up to the anchor, and proceed from there.

Not sure if that's a better option.

I guess it depends on how you are defining "better."


Partner xtrmecat


Jun 1, 2009, 9:38 AM
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Re: [scrapedape] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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  I recall this subject discussed in depth a year or so ago. Down prusik is indeed a great option. Various other rap options were discussed and I even built a carabiner brake under load. Do Not Do This. Besides being harder than getting money and approval for new gear from the wife, it prove to be totally uncontrollable under a real life load.
Short answer is prusik. Longer answer is you've got to get your victim off the line anyhow so you guys can self rescue to somewhere better. See riding the pig for a great intro into rapping with large load.
Bob


edited for some truly pitiful grammar and spelling corrections.


(This post was edited by xtrmecat on Jun 3, 2009, 10:22 AM)


hobo_climber


Jun 1, 2009, 10:00 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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"Extended french prussic" - google it.

It allows you to decend a loaded rope so you can get to your fallen buddy and either tend to him or cut his body freeTongue


joeforte


Jun 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
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Re: [xtrmecat] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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You could attach your Cinch, and then rap one of the ropes. The Cinch is one of the only devices I know of that can be loaded on a weighted rope. Although this requires your buddy not coming off the ropes until you reach him, because you are only weighting one of the ropes. You need his "dead weight" so to say.


majid_sabet


Jun 1, 2009, 10:16 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety.


dingus


Jun 1, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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This is not a 'situation' I plan for. Ever.

I could work something out in a pinch though.

DMT


fresh


Jun 1, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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turn up the skinny puppy on your walkman, solo the rest of the climb, name the route something dark like "the monolith of pain", write up the climb in a terse, provocative article dripping with nihilism, profit.

or prussik down.


sspssp


Jun 1, 2009, 11:34 AM
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Re: [joeforte] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
You could attach your Cinch, and then rap one of the ropes. The Cinch is one of the only devices I know of that can be loaded on a weighted rope. Although this requires your buddy not coming off the ropes until you reach him, because you are only weighting one of the ropes. You need his "dead weight" so to say.

If it is a two rope rap, just rapping the correct rope should be enough (the knot isn't going to pull through the anchor). For a single rope, you could try to haul your buddy up enough to tie a knot in the rope (so it can't slip through the anchor). But yea, I probably would just rap and not worry about it.

Didn't know that about the Cinch. Might play around with that someday.


irregularpanda


Jun 1, 2009, 11:36 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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tedman wrote:
While on rappel, he gets struck by lightning, or KO'd by rockfall, but either his rap backup stops him or he hits the knots at the end of the rope.

Shoot the hostage.


csproul


Jun 1, 2009, 11:45 AM
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Re: [joeforte] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
You could attach your Cinch, and then rap one of the ropes. The Cinch is one of the only devices I know of that can be loaded on a weighted rope. Although this requires your buddy not coming off the ropes until you reach him, because you are only weighting one of the ropes. You need his "dead weight" so to say.
Is this theoretical or have you actually tried loading a cinch with a weighted rope?


sungam


Jun 1, 2009, 11:53 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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KUTZ DA ROWP!!!!!


Partner rgold


Jun 1, 2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: [tedman] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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I've actually had to do this once to rescue a partner who had somehow gotten the rappel rope jammed in their ATC. They were fully conscious but dangling in space and didn't know how to set up any kind of friction knot. (Serves me right for assuming that someone who can climb circles around me in the gym is minimally competent outdoors.)

I don't think there are any really good options. I suspect that most of the rappelling options simply won't work in many situations and may be dangerous in others.

In my opinion, down prussiking is really the only option and that's what I did. There can be problems with this, and I can envision circumstances when it wouldn't be possible. The main difficulty arises when the weighted rope is held against an angle, rib, or protuberance of the cliff, a situation that is quite likely. It may be extremely hard to get the rope away from the cliff so that knots can be slid down (a rappel device would be more problematic). If the obstruction is short, knots can be removed and reinstalled below the blocked point. If the rope is held against a slab (think of a slab above an overhang), it might prove impossible or at least extremely difficult to prussik or rappel down.


billcoe_


Jun 1, 2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: [fresh] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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fresh wrote:
turn up the skinny puppy on your walkman, solo the rest of the climb, name the route something dark like "the monolith of pain", write up the climb in a terse, provocative article dripping with nihilism, profit.

or prussik down.

LOL!!!


marc801


Jun 1, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope...
WTF are you talking about?


joeforte


Jun 1, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Re: [csproul] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
joeforte wrote:
You could attach your Cinch, and then rap one of the ropes. The Cinch is one of the only devices I know of that can be loaded on a weighted rope. Although this requires your buddy not coming off the ropes until you reach him, because you are only weighting one of the ropes. You need his "dead weight" so to say.
Is this theoretical or have you actually tried loading a cinch with a weighted rope?

I do it all the time. This is the easiest way for me to set up a haul most of the time. The cinch acts like a tibloc or a ropeman in this setup.

Edited to add: The reason it works with the cinch so well is because the rope takes a nearly straight line through the cinch, and the plate opens up enough to push it in. Most other devices require a bend in the rope to be loaded, which is why this is not possible with a grigri.


(This post was edited by joeforte on Jun 1, 2009, 12:55 PM)


csproul


Jun 1, 2009, 1:07 PM
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Re: [joeforte] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
csproul wrote:
joeforte wrote:
You could attach your Cinch, and then rap one of the ropes. The Cinch is one of the only devices I know of that can be loaded on a weighted rope. Although this requires your buddy not coming off the ropes until you reach him, because you are only weighting one of the ropes. You need his "dead weight" so to say.
Is this theoretical or have you actually tried loading a cinch with a weighted rope?

I do it all the time. This is the easiest way for me to set up a haul most of the time. The cinch acts like a tibloc or a ropeman in this setup.

Edited to add: The reason it works with the cinch so well is because the rope takes a nearly straight line through the cinch, and the plate opens up enough to push it in. Most other devices require a bend in the rope to be loaded, which is why this is not possible with a grigri.
Cool. I'll give it a try.


(This post was edited by csproul on Jun 1, 2009, 1:10 PM)


dingus


Jun 1, 2009, 1:08 PM
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Re: what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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Solution: Don't tie knots in the end of the rap rope

DMT


bill413


Jun 1, 2009, 1:10 PM
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dingus wrote:
Solution: Don't tie knots in the end of the rap rope

DMT
Ah, but as the scenario started, he had a backup on the rap.


majid_sabet


Jun 1, 2009, 1:20 PM
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Re: [marc801] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope...
WTF are you talking about?

WTF are you asking me ?


Partner epoch
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Jun 1, 2009, 1:27 PM
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Re: [bill413] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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Extend your attachment to the anchor as far as you can with what you have on you. Then squirm, squeeze, strain, and pull with all your might to stretch out as far as you can.

Cut the rope.

Then de-core your rope and tie the core strands together to complete multiple rappels to the dirt. There was a thread aboot this not too long ago. Majid/Angry... Could either of you expand on this? Pirate


(This post was edited by epoch on Jun 1, 2009, 1:28 PM)


Partner epoch
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Jun 1, 2009, 1:28 PM
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Re: [epoch] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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Other than the above...


Down-prussicing (friction-hitches) seems to be the best option.


majid_sabet


Jun 1, 2009, 1:34 PM
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epoch wrote:
Extend your attachment to the anchor as far as you can with what you have on you. Then squirm, squeeze, strain, and pull with all your might to stretch out as far as you can.

Cut the rope.

Then de-core your rope and tie the core strands together to complete multiple rappels to the dirt. There was a thread aboot this not too long ago. Majid/Angry... Could either of you expand on this? Pirate

I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab.


Partner epoch
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Jun 1, 2009, 1:37 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
epoch wrote:
Extend your attachment to the anchor as far as you can with what you have on you. Then squirm, squeeze, strain, and pull with all your might to stretch out as far as you can.

Cut the rope.

Then de-core your rope and tie the core strands together to complete multiple rappels to the dirt. There was a thread aboot this not too long ago. Majid/Angry... Could either of you expand on this? Pirate

I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab.
How many core strands?

(not total, but the series that you'll be passing through your device?)


irregularpanda


Jun 1, 2009, 1:42 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] what to do in this rappel situation? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:

I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab.

Kind of like how you designed, created, and tested ovals in order to make a better biner that wouldn't fail because "the pin doesn't engage the notch"?

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