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gotung
Jun 11, 2009, 7:26 PM
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I am planning on building a wall in my garage. It's got an open decently high angled roof that would at it's height place my feet a good 8+ feet above a concrete floor scattered with tools, workbenches and assorted garage-ey type stuff.
I know what I'm doing in terms of building the wall itself and making sure the bolt hangers are bomb-proof. But I wanted to see what others thought about my scheme for making sure I don't kill myself.
I wanted a system that would allow me to safely climb solo, but I would also like freedom of movement and low complexity.
So here is what I came up with:
1) Standard bolt hangers spaced out going up the wall
2) Locking biners attached to bolt hangers
3) Rope snaking up with a knot at each biner. (a knot type that leaves a loop to hook through the biner).
Heres a quicky text diagram (imagine this at an angle instead of flat):
D D D D D --- Bolt Hangers
0 0 0 0 0 --- Locking Biners
o 0 o o o --- Rope loops
@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@ --- Rope w/knots
I was thinking of wearing just a standard climbing harness with 2 extra long quickdraws properly attached to the tie-in points.
Get to the first knot, clip both q-draws above the knot (biners facing opposite ways, of course). Get to the 2nd knot, unclip one and re-clip it above the knot, repeat for 2nd q-draw.
I would likely also have at least one parallel rope system of the same type running up a different part of the wall, close enough that I could switch between the two mid-climb.
I figure during a fall the quick draws would slide down the rope, and stop you when you get to the knot, without a biner-on-biner collision taking place.
At the top there would be plenty of rope to attach a rappel device to and rappel down, just gotta remember to bring one with you :)
Alternatively (or if stuck midway) It shouldn't be too hard to lift with one arm and reverse the unclip/reclip process to move past the knot and slide down to the next one.
The only single point of failure is the rope itself (or a single quickdraw if you fall during a transition). At the top I would double up the bolt hangers/biners to prevent it from being a single point of failure. Not too concerned about doing the same at the bottom as I wouldn't be much off the ground anyway.
This system also has the benefit of being rather easy to take down for practicing some lead climbing when there is somebody else present to belay.
It all seems like a pretty good system in my head, but since it's my head (and other body parts) that's going to be on the line I figured I should get some feedback before proceeding.
Any reason why this would lead to disaster?
Also: Any recommendations on some crazy-obscure type of knot to use?
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Logikal41
Jun 11, 2009, 7:37 PM
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i dont really have a comment on your protection system but i would think if you have the money / space , why not just put down some fairly thick mats (like what you find in a gym) and just bypass the whole protection thing. It would be a lot easier to climb solo and would get rid of the tedious clipping procedure. Being that its only around 8 feet, this should be enough protection.
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gotung
Jun 11, 2009, 7:43 PM
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Logikal41 wrote: i dont really have a comment on your protection system but i would think if you have the money / space , why not just put down some fairly thick mats (like what you find in a gym) and just bypass the whole protection thing. It would be a lot easier to climb solo and would get rid of the tedious clipping procedure. Being that its only around 8 feet, this should be enough protection.
It would be a large undertaking to move everything that would need to be moved every time I wanted to climb. The point of having a small home wall is quick easy access.
For instance there is a workbench that I would be nowhere near hitting under this system, but it would need to be moved if I went with a mat.
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shoo
Jun 11, 2009, 7:50 PM
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Your wall is 8ft tall. This barely qualifies as bouldering. Attempting to set up a via ferrata (look it up) system on an 8 foot wall is begging for disaster, let alone lead. Plus, you are severely limiting yourself to one path. 8 feet straight up a wall is pretty much 2 boring moves long.
Put down some mats and call it a bouldering wall.
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shimanilami
Jun 11, 2009, 7:54 PM
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It seems like a major CF to me. If it was me, I'd create a couple of rope tethers, girth hitch these to my harness, and just clip these directly into the bolts. Alternatively, you could self belay with a gri-gri.
Strike that. If it was me, I'd take the time to clean up my garage and then use my crash pads.
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Logikal41
Jun 11, 2009, 8:05 PM
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gotung wrote: It would be a large undertaking to move everything that would need to be moved every time I wanted to climb. The point of having a small home wall is quick easy access. For instance there is a workbench that I would be nowhere near hitting under this system, but it would need to be moved if I went with a mat.
I got ya, i just feel that its going to be a lot of work to put up your system for such a small amount of climbing space. If you want to get creative you can get one of those auto belaying top rope machine things that you see on the portable rock walls at carnivals and stuff .... i have no clue what they are called but i am sure it would be pretty easy to put together .. then you can clip it through all the 'biners and as you climb unclip so to avoid a big swing into your work bench...
I still think putting pads down would be your easiest / best bet for the situation.... maybe you can just move your bench and gear into a section of the garage you wont be climbing over.
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spikeddem
Jun 11, 2009, 8:28 PM
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shoo wrote: Your wall is 8ft tall. This barely qualifies as bouldering. Attempting to set up a via ferrata (look it up) system on an 8 foot wall is begging for disaster, let alone lead. Plus, you are severely limiting yourself to one path. 8 feet straight up a wall is pretty much 2 boring moves long. Put down some mats and call it a bouldering wall.
You misread what he wrote. His feet are eight feet off the ground.
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acorneau
Jun 11, 2009, 8:36 PM
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shoo wrote: Your wall is 8ft tall. This barely qualifies as bouldering.
If you re-read his post, he says that at the tallest part of the wall his feet would be 8' off the ground.
Still, if the OP's wall is ~15' tall, that's not enough room for real lead climbing (which is one of his ideas).
I'd guess that a top-rope soloing set up (mini-trax, gri-gri, cinch, etc.) would be a better method than the via ferrata-style rig.
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shoo
Jun 11, 2009, 8:38 PM
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spikeddem wrote: shoo wrote: Your wall is 8ft tall. This barely qualifies as bouldering. Attempting to set up a via ferrata (look it up) system on an 8 foot wall is begging for disaster, let alone lead. Plus, you are severely limiting yourself to one path. 8 feet straight up a wall is pretty much 2 boring moves long. Put down some mats and call it a bouldering wall. You misread what he wrote. His feet are eight feet off the ground.
So I did.
However, that puts you at roughly a 15 feet tall wall, which is still bouldering as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't change the general sense of the statement I made. Via ferrata at 15 feet = bad. Leading at 15 feet = extra bad. Mats = good.
Edited 'cause i suck at math.
(This post was edited by shoo on Jun 11, 2009, 8:49 PM)
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jakedatc
Jun 11, 2009, 9:19 PM
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i agree with Shoo it's still too short for any type of leading set up.. not to mention how solid you'd have to make each bolt. and in a home set up i would be nervous. Not to mention that he's going to be taking mini whippers over all the tools he doesnt want to move.. nothing like a lead fall into a table saw to ruin your day.
TR set up would also prove to be difficult since if it's any kind of overhang then any fall will send him swinging into the tools again.
reorganize the tools and get them on one side and put the wall on the other side and make a nice boulder wall.
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gotung
Jun 11, 2009, 10:10 PM
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Yea the actual wall would go 8 feet vertical up the side of my garage, and then about another 12-15 feet along the roof at about a 45 degree overhang.
To get more specific about the setup, the "car" half of my garage is open and clear and thats what I am building the wall over, but the other half has tools/workbench etc that really can't be moved.
I am planning on using mats where there is any possibility of hitting the ground. But at the apex of the roof (which would be the end of the climb) I would be over the exact middle between car area, and work area.
There is a workbench nearby that is part or a whole system of shelves and what-not and it really can't be moved. Falling to a mat from the apex 99 out of a 100 times I wouldn't hit the bench. But it's that 1 time I'm worried about.
Theorectically My overhanging-via-feratta-style idea would always swing me back towards the open area of the garage. And I am going to make sure of it before I actually trust it.
I guess what I am asking is would catching on a knot like that put undue stress on the quickdraw biner, or the rope itself?
Would it be better to introduce a bit more slack between knots so that you get caught at the bottom of the slack instead of on the knot?
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cintune
Jun 11, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Might want to get one of these and hang it from the ceiling. Seat belt webbing; locks up instantly with no shock load if you fall. I got one for a 12' bouldering wall. Usually don't bother to use it, but it does work.
http://www.bowhunting.net/...lish/FallGuyPR.shtml
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taydude
Jun 11, 2009, 10:27 PM
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the issue with the via feretta system is that you're not going to like the falls. When you slide down the rope and hit that knot you're going to be experiencing a fairly static fall which means high forces. I'd imagine this would hurt a lot. If it were me, I'd use pads and stop the wall with enough room so that you won't swing into that bench.
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jakedatc
Jun 11, 2009, 10:40 PM
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not to mention that sliding and hitting things with a non locking biner is sketchy and asking for an open gate situation
make it steeper in the beginning and shorter. easier to set.. easier to have more routes.. trust me variety of routes is key or you will get seriously bored. i have an 8x8 40 degree wall and i wish some friends would come over and reset it because it's hard to get creative after a while
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shimanilami
Jun 11, 2009, 11:27 PM
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Jakedatc is right about getting bored. You're going to spend more time setting routes than actually climbing.
IMO home walls are for training, not climbing.
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HappinessIsWinning
Jun 12, 2009, 12:44 PM
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I would try to clean up your garage a bit. Maybe put casters on your bench so you can move it easily. Make it so the "garage-ey" type stuff can be moved out of the way. The via-ferreta system seems like it could have all kinds of potential pitfalls.
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yodadave
Jun 12, 2009, 1:04 PM
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between the fall factor, the stress that those knots will put on the rope, the fall cross loading the gate, the number of holds you'd have to buy to set routes that long, backing up each bolt (which is usually easier with access behind your panels) etc etc I would say either just make it a bouldering wall and see if you get bored or if you must be on a rope do the solo setup. Personally i think you can probably have a lot of fun with out getting on a rope.
One other if you must get on a rope idea. Fixed draws and an auto lower system fixed to your peak unclip from draws as you go. Use a stickclip to set it back up after lowering or go for the burn and downclimb clipping in as you go
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edge
Jun 12, 2009, 1:10 PM
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If you can pause mid-route to clip in opposite and opposed biners, then something is terribly wrong with your idea of training.
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rocknice2
Jun 12, 2009, 1:36 PM
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Your better off building a bouldering wall instead of this lead wall.
Go 3-4 panels across against the vertical wall only go out 1 panel [3-4 across] up the steep roof.
Get a crash mat or 2 and your good to go.
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kobaz
Jun 12, 2009, 1:54 PM
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Speaking of bouldering... and not to trying to hijack or anything... but
What's a good cad program to design a home bouldering wall... I'm thinking of converting half my attic into a wall.
Edited to fix some terrible spelling/grammar
(This post was edited by kobaz on Jun 12, 2009, 1:54 PM)
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HappinessIsWinning
Jun 12, 2009, 2:17 PM
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I used a system of triangles to make the irregular parts of my wall. I didn't need any program for it. With triangles you can just measure the lines for the shape you need and then make a triangle that size/shape and it fits.
Edit: The hard part with anything like this though is that you have to have at least 1 and sometimes 2 supports behind every seam.
(This post was edited by HappinessIsWinning on Jun 12, 2009, 2:23 PM)
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gotung
Jun 12, 2009, 2:58 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I guess as per usual I was over thinking it, and making it more complicated then it needed to be.
I could just make a net out of some webbing and hang it from the apex straight down to the top of the vertical wall height. My worst case scenario fall (missing an aggressive move at/near the top) would bounce me off the net and back down to the mat instead of sailing me towards the wrong half of the garage.
Hell I could even just put a section of wall there and accomplish the same thing while making the whole setup more interesting to move around on.
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jakedatc
Jun 12, 2009, 4:47 PM
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gotung wrote: Thanks for the advice. I guess as per usual I was over thinking it, and making it more complicated then it needed to be. I could just make a net out of some webbing and hang it from the apex straight down to the top of the vertical wall height. My worst case scenario fall (missing an aggressive move at/near the top) would bounce me off the net and back down to the mat instead of sailing me towards the wrong half of the garage. Hell I could even just put a section of wall there and accomplish the same thing while making the whole setup more interesting to move around on.
there you go.. just wall the thing off.. have another vertical wall on that side.. make the other side steeper.. build in
a net of any type will not work btw.. you will not stop or get bounced. take one look at a slackline and you will see why
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Alpinisto
Jun 23, 2009, 12:57 PM
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kobaz wrote: Speaking of bouldering... and not to trying to hijack or anything... but What's a good cad program to design a home bouldering wall... I'm thinking of converting half my attic into a wall. Edited to fix some terrible spelling/grammar
Try Google SketchUp. It's not technically a CAD program, but it's a free download and it can do some pretty cool stuff.
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