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krosbakken
Jul 3, 2009, 8:45 PM
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I have been reading all this information about the alien crazyness and Im wondering. I have two aliens that were bought back in 2002. Could these be sketchy cams that are going to explode on me? They haven't yet but......
So are all aliens, old and new questionable?
Or is it only the aliens made after a certain date?
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sungam
Jul 3, 2009, 8:56 PM
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Check out the online cam angle checker. Assuming that you've fallen on them there probably isn't a problem with the brazing, but there could be an issue with a mis-drilled axle.
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marc801
Jul 3, 2009, 9:44 PM
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Given the history of failed brazes, both the ones that initiated the recall and failure of post-recall aliens, plus the incorrectly drilled axle holes, plus CCH's initial responses and apparently continued inability to institute modern statistical quality control measures......
I consider all Aliens suspect. The sole exception possibly being ones that have been both strength tested and checked for correct axle hole positioning.
Personally, I would not use them. Others feel differently.
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angry
Jul 3, 2009, 9:45 PM
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Here's the truly beautiful part of all this. Even after all the testing, any analysis you've got, whomever's opinion you've heard, all of it. Even after all this, we're all in the same spot we have always been.
If you want to use aliens, make damn sure they aren't dimpled.
If they are outside of the recall range, you are probably OK but it's up to you to evaluate them since you can't guarantee they are good.
Ways to evaluate them include fuse testing, bounce testing, CCH tensile testing, third party testing, and just eyeballing them.
Nothing has changed. What a world.
I for one am also not buying the whole cam angle thing. I understand why it seems like a big deal but I own something like 20 aliens and I've fallen on all of them at some time or another. In every position from over cammed to tipped out, I've whipped. There is no way with 20+ cams that I got lucky enough to have all my cam angles correct, no way. Yet, they hold.
The ones that rip are always the same, flared slick pod that I shouldn't have wasted my time with. Considering that, I should climb with a different brand so I never have the option of protecting those shitty spots that sometimes rip.
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angry
Jul 3, 2009, 10:12 PM
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yodadave wrote: angry wrote: Ways to evaluate them include fuse testing, bounce testing, CCH tensile testing, third party testing, and just eyeballing them. So third party testing, is that where you lend your rack to a friend and say have a great day???  Also as for pod protection no chance of using tricams?? I know they aren't as popular out in CO but they really opened up pod protection for me.
I decked last week when a flared yellow popped. I wonder if one of those two new mini-tricams would have held? Certainly a pink would have been too big.
The thing is, usually, if I can stop and place a tricam, I'm not going to fall. This situation was where I desperately tossed a blind cam in and barely made the clip. I really can't imagine getting one in the same spot other than on rappel.
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krosbakken
Jul 3, 2009, 10:16 PM
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hey sungam do you have a link to that or something? Ive heard a little about that but thats about it.
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yodadave
Jul 3, 2009, 10:17 PM
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fair call they are definitely a more time consuming placement.
I wonder if you could lightly tape them so that they are "preloaded" if you know what i'm getting at. that way you could pop it in the pod tug it to set it and go??? Just a thought, it would still be slower than a cam fo' sho'
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hafilax
Jul 3, 2009, 10:22 PM
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Some people tape a piece of plastic to the webbing of the tricam so that it can be placed more easily with one hand. If it's one of those pod placements where once the tricam gets in it flops open and can't come out then I could see that working.
A ballnut maybe?
As for Aliens, I fully agree with Angry. There isn't any concrete evidence that the cam angle thing is a major problem IMHO.
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angry
Jul 3, 2009, 10:22 PM
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yodadave wrote: fair call they are definitely a more time consuming placement. I wonder if you could lightly tape them so that they are "preloaded" if you know what i'm getting at. that way you could pop it in the pod tug it to set it and go??? Just a thought, it would still be slower than a cam fo' sho'
In theory yes. On this particular route though, no.
Had I kept climbing and not placed the cam, I would have had a bolt catch me and I would not have decked. When the cam popped, it introduced more slack than the short system + 100lb belayer could compensate for. I landed flat on my back and looked over to see her with her hand still on the brake.
I've seen the sling on the pink tricam heat shrink wrapped. It stays flexible and adds a lot of stiffness.
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yodadave
Jul 3, 2009, 10:24 PM
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hafilax wrote: Some people tape a piece of plastic to the webbing of the tricam so that it can be placed more easily with one hand.
any chance i could get you to elaborate?
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hafilax
Jul 3, 2009, 10:28 PM
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yodadave wrote: hafilax wrote: Some people tape a piece of plastic to the webbing of the tricam so that it can be placed more easily with one hand. any chance i could get you to elaborate?
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angry
Jul 3, 2009, 10:34 PM
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If I recall correctly, I've ripped 8 cams in a fall in my life. I think there are more but these ring a bell.
1. Aiding off two lobes of a #2 friend. A purple alien likely would have held.
2. Pumped silly placed several bad pieces in choss. An orange alien ripped and a fully umbrella'd red alien stopped the fall
3. Green alien in Wudamuthafucka, slick flared pod, should have been a nut. Sprained my ankle and my partners head.
4. The ear pitch on Freeblast. Yellow alien in a pod. There was good gear everywhere else, I was just being a dumbass.
5 and 6. Ripped several blue and black aliens out of a shit placement on a project in the South Platte. Once I placed a ballnut in the same spot, I was fine.
7. On Crankenstein, the afore mentioned incident last week.
8. On an FA attempt on my route, Hellhound. I knew the gear was shit and backed it up. The second piece held. It was a red alien backed up by a yellow.
FWIW, I've never ripped a cam of any size in sandstone, only granite.
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krosbakken
Jul 3, 2009, 10:43 PM
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angry wrote: If I recall correctly, I've ripped 8 cams in a fall in my life. I think there are more but these ring a bell. 1. Aiding off two lobes of a #2 friend. A purple alien likely would have held. 2. Pumped silly placed several bad pieces in choss. An orange alien ripped and a fully umbrella'd red alien stopped the fall 3. Green alien in Wudamuthafucka, slick flared pod, should have been a nut. Sprained my ankle and my partners head. 4. The ear pitch on Freeblast. Yellow alien in a pod. There was good gear everywhere else, I was just being a dumbass. 5 and 6. Ripped several blue and black aliens out of a shit placement on a project in the South Platte. Once I placed a ballnut in the same spot, I was fine. 7. On Crankenstein, the afore mentioned incident last week. 8. On an FA attempt on my route, Hellhound. I knew the gear was shit and backed it up. The second piece held. It was a red alien backed up by a yellow. FWIW, I've never ripped a cam of any size in sandstone, only granite.
So in other words aliens go places that they shouldn't because a different piece of gear would hold better. 
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moose_droppings
Jul 3, 2009, 11:09 PM
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angry wrote: functionally retarded Metolius cams...
OK, I've stayed out of Aliengate until this rubbish.
Metolius cams won't pull out of a hooker prematurely if placed right.
Don't blame it on the cam.
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angry
Jul 3, 2009, 11:12 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: angry wrote: functionally retarded Metolius cams... OK, I've stayed out of Aliengate until this rubbish. Metolius cams won't pull out of a hooker prematurely if placed right. Don't blame it on the cam.
Neither will a Rock Empire, Friend, Camalot, or those crazy Ukranian things. What's your point?
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moose_droppings
Jul 3, 2009, 11:23 PM
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angry wrote: moose_droppings wrote: angry wrote: functionally retarded Metolius cams... OK, I've stayed out of Aliengate until this rubbish. Metolius cams won't pull out of a hooker prematurely if placed right. Don't blame it on the cam.
Neither will a Rock Empire, Friend, Camalot, or those crazy Ukranian things. What's your point?
Your either using to much lube or to small of a cam.
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bill413
Jul 4, 2009, 1:04 AM
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angry wrote: krosbakken wrote: So we've got two guys. One says he got the clap from banging hookers 8 times. Sounds high. You talk to him and realize that he's banged 200 hookers. A few antibiotics and the dude is fine. Another guy claims he's never gotten the clap from banging hookers. Further analysis reveals that he's never banged a hooker. In fact, he's a virgin. So I don't know the point of that analogy. I just wanted to work banging hookers into this thread.Come on, the bolded part has nothing to do with what you wanted. 
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james481
Jul 4, 2009, 3:35 AM
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angry wrote: If I recall correctly, I've ripped 8 cams in a fall in my life. I think there are more but these ring a bell. 1. Aiding off two lobes of a #2 friend. A purple alien likely would have held. 2. Pumped silly placed several bad pieces in choss. An orange alien ripped and a fully umbrella'd red alien stopped the fall 3. Green alien in Wudamuthafucka, slick flared pod, should have been a nut. Sprained my ankle and my partners head. 4. The ear pitch on Freeblast. Yellow alien in a pod. There was good gear everywhere else, I was just being a dumbass. 5 and 6. Ripped several blue and black aliens out of a shit placement on a project in the South Platte. Once I placed a ballnut in the same spot, I was fine. 7. On Crankenstein, the afore mentioned incident last week. 8. On an FA attempt on my route, Hellhound. I knew the gear was shit and backed it up. The second piece held. It was a red alien backed up by a yellow. FWIW, I've never ripped a cam of any size in sandstone, only granite.
First off, I premise this with the statement that I'm a total trad noob (been working on my placements near the ground for the last couple of months... does that count as experience?  ). I understand that you're saying that these placements took Aliens when no other gear would fit, but do you think it's possible that some of your aliens may have issues with the cam angles, and that the same Alien with properly drilled lobes may have held in these marginal placements? Just curious...
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abe_ascends
Jul 4, 2009, 4:40 AM
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hafilax wrote: yodadave wrote: hafilax wrote: Some people tape a piece of plastic to the webbing of the tricam so that it can be placed more easily with one hand. any chance i could get you to elaborate? I haven't seen it done personally. I have a vague recollection of somebody taping a piece of a cable tie to stiffen up the section next to the tricam itself. Sorry, that's all I got.
I've seen folks tape popsicle sticks to their tri-cam slings to aid one-handed placements.
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shockabuku
Jul 4, 2009, 5:58 AM
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yodadave wrote: hafilax wrote: Some people tape a piece of plastic to the webbing of the tricam so that it can be placed more easily with one hand. any chance i could get you to elaborate?
Look here, part way down the page under JosephH's post.
http://cascadeclimbers.com/...923/site_id/1#import
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angry
Jul 4, 2009, 9:36 AM
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james481 wrote: angry wrote: If I recall correctly, I've ripped 8 cams in a fall in my life. I think there are more but these ring a bell. 1. Aiding off two lobes of a #2 friend. A purple alien likely would have held. 2. Pumped silly placed several bad pieces in choss. An orange alien ripped and a fully umbrella'd red alien stopped the fall 3. Green alien in Wudamuthafucka, slick flared pod, should have been a nut. Sprained my ankle and my partners head. 4. The ear pitch on Freeblast. Yellow alien in a pod. There was good gear everywhere else, I was just being a dumbass. 5 and 6. Ripped several blue and black aliens out of a shit placement on a project in the South Platte. Once I placed a ballnut in the same spot, I was fine. 7. On Crankenstein, the afore mentioned incident last week. 8. On an FA attempt on my route, Hellhound. I knew the gear was shit and backed it up. The second piece held. It was a red alien backed up by a yellow. FWIW, I've never ripped a cam of any size in sandstone, only granite. First off, I premise this with the statement that I'm a total trad noob (been working on my placements near the ground for the last couple of months... does that count as experience? ). I understand that you're saying that these placements took Aliens when no other gear would fit, but do you think it's possible that some of your aliens may have issues with the cam angles, and that the same Alien with properly drilled lobes may have held in these marginal placements? Just curious...
Not a chance.
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j_ung
Jul 4, 2009, 10:57 AM
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angry wrote: james481 wrote: angry wrote: If I recall correctly, I've ripped 8 cams in a fall in my life. I think there are more but these ring a bell. 1. Aiding off two lobes of a #2 friend. A purple alien likely would have held. 2. Pumped silly placed several bad pieces in choss. An orange alien ripped and a fully umbrella'd red alien stopped the fall 3. Green alien in Wudamuthafucka, slick flared pod, should have been a nut. Sprained my ankle and my partners head. 4. The ear pitch on Freeblast. Yellow alien in a pod. There was good gear everywhere else, I was just being a dumbass. 5 and 6. Ripped several blue and black aliens out of a shit placement on a project in the South Platte. Once I placed a ballnut in the same spot, I was fine. 7. On Crankenstein, the afore mentioned incident last week. 8. On an FA attempt on my route, Hellhound. I knew the gear was shit and backed it up. The second piece held. It was a red alien backed up by a yellow. FWIW, I've never ripped a cam of any size in sandstone, only granite. First off, I premise this with the statement that I'm a total trad noob (been working on my placements near the ground for the last couple of months... does that count as experience? ). I understand that you're saying that these placements took Aliens when no other gear would fit, but do you think it's possible that some of your aliens may have issues with the cam angles, and that the same Alien with properly drilled lobes may have held in these marginal placements? Just curious... Not a chance.
Why not? Unless you've left some details out, you've described very well a few situations in which an Alien with a misdrilled axle hole might -- theoretically -- not hold.
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yodadave
Jul 4, 2009, 11:32 AM
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much thanks for the link shocka'
it makes way more sense now and i think i might have to try it
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