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wes_allen


Jul 3, 2009, 3:24 PM
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Wordpress (blog) based websites
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Just wanted to do a quick post to give some info about a kinda new trend with websites and to get a little bit of feedback on my new blogsite.

If you don't want to learn a lot of html, dreamweaver, etc or spend a lot of money on a website design, you should look into using wordpress as your website. With the last couple versions, and with some of the new plugin's, it isn't hard to run a full scale website off wordpress.

Couple of the advantages:
One of the best things, is that you separate the content from the tech stuff. So, anyone that can write an email or bbs post can add or edit content on a webpage - no problem
Free! (you just need a host that supports it, which almost all do)
Mostly wysiwyg editing once you have the basic setup going. You can still use html coding if you want though.
Edit content anywhere, from any modern browser. You can update your site anytime, without having a dedicated program. Want to make a quick change to your homepage - just fire up a browser, click a couple links, make some edits, and you are good to go.
Fast - wordpress is fast, with pretty tight code.
Standards based
Security is pretty good, as long as your host keeps up the code versions.
Easy to change the look. Since it is theme based, just change to a new theme (or part of your current theme) and your site has a totally new look. There are lots of free themes, and they aren't too hard to change around a bit (if you know a little css). Or you can buy templates.
Great for SEO
Great and easy to use plugin's for stats

Some drawbacks
To really tweak it out, you need to know CSS, HTML and PHP.
Without a lot of work, the sites can look a bit generic
Might not be real easy to add e-commerce features.

I am sure there are other pluses and minuses as well. But the big thing is that, even if you have to pay to have the site set up at first, you are in control of the content - no need to have someone make changes for you.

My new wordpress based site for our commercial / event photography:

http://www.radicalangles.com

All done with free software, free templates, etc. Didn't take a really long time to setup so far, and once the basics were done, adding the content pages was pretty easy. Still not done, and not happy with a few things, but I think it is better then the flash template and iweb sites I had before. Will be moving our Wedding photography site to something like this once I get the kinks worked out.

For more info and some better examples, google wordpress as cms or wordpress as website.


pico23


Jul 6, 2009, 2:08 PM
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Re: [wes_allen] Wordpress (blog) based websites [In reply to]
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Yeah, the blog format is pretty simple. I went with blogger because it's a goggle site, I didn't need to make a password, or user name since I had google accounts.

Not sure if blogger or wordpress are better than one another, but they seem to be the two big sites for this sort of stuff.

Also a note to add to what Wes said (and he might have already said this but I am running short on time).

Feedburner is a great addition to blogs, it tracks and helps promote them.

I don't have ads on my site, so I don't care about AdSense or anything like that, but I have to say, if you are blogging and you don't care if anyone is reading it what is the point? Unless you are just doing it as a live journal type thing, but most people taking the time to write and photograph are expecting someone to read it. So getting an idea of what gets hits, and who is reading it is great. Most people don't comment on random blogs, I know I don't, but that doesn't mean they didn't read it. Seeing incoming traffic sources, time on site, and key word entries is cool. I noticed my trip reports get a lot of reads, and the maps I post are the most viewed photos (sadly). But I can't feel bad, I peruse blogs and family trip reports looking for pre trip info myself. These days guide books are the thing I buy a few weeks before the trip, when I know where I am going and what I want to do, all via blogs and photo sharing sites.

Anyway, Feedburner was more simple for tracking stats but Google killed feed stats and added analytics which is accessible from the feedburner page.

Personally, Feeburner stats were easier to read quickly but Google Analytics is WAAAY more powerful for those actually making money or attempting to off a blog. Since I have a real job, and make some cash from photography when motivated to do so, I decided not to blast my site with ads that we are all drowning in so I could make $5 a month (1000-2000 hits per month which is 7000% above the google analytic benchmark for a site my size). However, some people might want to make a run at pulling in big bucks from micro pennies per hit and make a 6 figure salary from their easy chair with a netbook on the lap. I'm guessing to make a living off a blog you need to get about 150,000 hits a month or more, and that would yield you a minimum wage living!!!

Anyway, despite having 3 domains names (if you don't buy your desired domain, someone else will!!!), I've sort of defaulted to the blog as easy street for website development. One day, I'll get the desire to rebuild a proper site, and one day pigs will fly and black flies won't bite....


(This post was edited by pico23 on Jul 6, 2009, 2:10 PM)


bandycoot


Jul 6, 2009, 2:15 PM
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I know almost nothing about this stuff, and my friend taught me how to post trip reports quite easily on the wordpress site that he set up: http://pullharder.org. I like the site, and like you said it doesn't seem to be a large amount of work for him to create/change it.


knieveltech


Jul 6, 2009, 2:15 PM
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Wordpress is a toy. Drupal is a much better option overall, unless you really just want to set up a blog, in which case 99 times out of 100 you should just stick to facebook.


wes_allen


Jul 6, 2009, 2:41 PM
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Heh, my coder friends say drupal is a hella nightmare and that if you want something like that, joomla is a way better choice. But, really, depending on your needs, wordpress can do a whole lot these days, without having to pay a coder money to make, and then update it all the time. But, that is just me, and my needs are pretty simple.

The behind the scenes tech people are becoming less and less relevant these days, and content is becoming easier to create and manage. As a network engineer, I see the writing on the wall, and I moving away from that stuff as fast as I can.

It is amazing to me that you can create and mange a pretty cool website, with almost zero html/css knowledge these days. Two years ago, you would have been stuck with something like iweb or frontpage, but today, you can download a ton for free stuff, and with a couple afternoon of work, have something that looks pretty good, and even more important, that you can update and manage from anywhere you have an internet connection.


wes_allen


Jul 6, 2009, 2:46 PM
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I run wordpress on my own server, not on wordpress.com, I think it is more flexible / powerful that way, though not for sure. But, what I am doing now, is using wordpress as a website - rather then just a small part of a site. With wordpress pages and with url options, you can make wp seem like a traditional site, but still edit and manage it with the wp-admin page. Pretty cool stuff, just google wordpress as cms and see some of what people are doing with it.

No ads on my blogs, it is more for promotion, not really aimed at anyone but potential clients. I use a free plug in, wassup to help track stuff within wordpress, but also have awstats on my cpanel to do longer term tracking.



pico23 wrote:
Yeah, the blog format is pretty simple. I went with blogger because it's a goggle site, I didn't need to make a password, or user name since I had google accounts.

Not sure if blogger or wordpress are better than one another, but they seem to be the two big sites for this sort of stuff.

Also a note to add to what Wes said (and he might have already said this but I am running short on time).

Feedburner is a great addition to blogs, it tracks and helps promote them.

I don't have ads on my site, so I don't care about AdSense or anything like that, but I have to say, if you are blogging and you don't care if anyone is reading it what is the point? Unless you are just doing it as a live journal type thing, but most people taking the time to write and photograph are expecting someone to read it. So getting an idea of what gets hits, and who is reading it is great. Most people don't comment on random blogs, I know I don't, but that doesn't mean they didn't read it. Seeing incoming traffic sources, time on site, and key word entries is cool. I noticed my trip reports get a lot of reads, and the maps I post are the most viewed photos (sadly). But I can't feel bad, I peruse blogs and family trip reports looking for pre trip info myself. These days guide books are the thing I buy a few weeks before the trip, when I know where I am going and what I want to do, all via blogs and photo sharing sites.

Anyway, Feedburner was more simple for tracking stats but Google killed feed stats and added analytics which is accessible from the feedburner page.

Personally, Feeburner stats were easier to read quickly but Google Analytics is WAAAY more powerful for those actually making money or attempting to off a blog. Since I have a real job, and make some cash from photography when motivated to do so, I decided not to blast my site with ads that we are all drowning in so I could make $5 a month (1000-2000 hits per month which is 7000% above the google analytic benchmark for a site my size). However, some people might want to make a run at pulling in big bucks from micro pennies per hit and make a 6 figure salary from their easy chair with a netbook on the lap. I'm guessing to make a living off a blog you need to get about 150,000 hits a month or more, and that would yield you a minimum wage living!!!

Anyway, despite having 3 domains names (if you don't buy your desired domain, someone else will!!!), I've sort of defaulted to the blog as easy street for website development. One day, I'll get the desire to rebuild a proper site, and one day pigs will fly and black flies won't bite....


ryanb


Jul 6, 2009, 2:57 PM
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I've worked as a web developer in the past and currently maintain online databases for biological information. Wordpress seems like a solid content management system, only thing I will add is that if you are expecting large amounts of traffic (or want to be ready for occasional traffic surges from digg/slashdot etc) you need to make sure you are caching rendered pages (there is a word press plugin for this i think) and consider hosting high bandwidth content (embedded video, large photos) on a free service like youtube/vimeo/flickr etc to cut down on your bandwidth bills.


knieveltech


Jul 6, 2009, 5:21 PM
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wes_allen wrote:
Heh, my coder friends say drupal is a hella nightmare and that if you want something like that, joomla is a way better choice.

Your coder friend is sadly mistaken. Joomla is a blunt instrument and at best suited for brochureware sites. Sony Music, Popular Science, Recovery.org and the Department of Defense all agree on this point.


In reply to:
The behind the scenes tech people are becoming less and less relevant these days, and content is becoming easier to create and manage. As a network engineer, I see the writing on the wall, and I moving away from that stuff as fast as I can.


That's pretty amusing. Management and content types have been telling themselves that developers are largely irrelevant for a couple decades now. This fallacy is easily debunked when you stop for a moment and consider who writes the plugins for your CMS of choice, who audits these tools for security concerns, and who issues patches as needed.

Simply put people with little inclination to learn the technology have been able to put together glib vanity websites since Geocities was unveiled, the tools to do this sort of thing have just gotten more sophisticated. However, to do anything serious requires (and will continue to require) the skills of a trained professional.


In reply to:
It is amazing to me that you can create and mange a pretty cool website, with almost zero html/css knowledge these days.

I suspect our definitions of "pretty cool website" differ wildly, but I definitely agree with what you're saying. There are at least three open source content management systems that allow you to bolt together a pretty full-featured website with little or no understanding of code, markup or styling required.



Full disclosure:

I am a professional web developer active in the Drupal community. I have vetted Wordpress, Joomla and Movable Type for various projects and have dismissed them for anything beyond simple blogging or brochureware.


wes_allen


Jul 6, 2009, 5:41 PM
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If you are doing a site as big as sony music, then you need different things then if you are doing a site for "bob's local music shop" or "jill's climbing photography." And thus, for them, wordpress would be plenty.

As for the content v. tech stuff, how many coders does it take to write and maintain a plugin, vs. how many are out there doing websites? Just like network engineering will never really go away, there will just less and less need for web coding. Better to be ready and proactive about finding something else to do. Yes, MTV will always have a web tech staff and budget. But, many small biz will move to something that they can install and manage on their own. That might not effect you, but it will effect a lot of other small devs.

My one friend works for some big time orgs as well, and his response when I asked drupal v. joomla question (when I was still looking at one of those, rather then wordpress for my new site)

"I haven't used Joomla, but we did a project with drupal which is IMHO a giant horrible piece of crap. It was so bad that all of my developers said they would quit if they were forced to use it again. We even wrote a paper on why it sucked.

(that being said, drupal is designed in a way that might be useful for non-programmers, in that you can't really write code, you just endlessly change different undocumented configuration files....)

(the other weird thing about drupal is the cult like admiration of it by those who use it...it is more a religion than a CMS, really freaks me out...)

That being said joomla wins by default. I think it is simpler and can't do as many fancy things, which sounds good for you.

just as an example of how horrify it is, this is the actual SQL query it makes to load something as simple as a username on a webpage. If you take that and think of how many dynamically generated pieces of info there on a modern web page it explains why Drupal based sites are so horribly painfully uselessly slow......

Sample Database Call to display user names on a group page:

[code snipped]

Again, I think it is about scale - I wouldn't try to run cnn.com on wordpress, but, as a very inexpensive, small scale CMS, it would be more then enough for a whole lot of people. Where Joomla and drupal are more suited to bigger sites / budgets.


knieveltech wrote:
wes_allen wrote:
Heh, my coder friends say drupal is a hella nightmare and that if you want something like that, joomla is a way better choice.

Your coder friend is sadly mistaken. Joomla is a blunt instrument and at best suited for brochureware sites. Sony Music, Popular Science, Recovery.org and the Department of Defense all agree on this point.


In reply to:
The behind the scenes tech people are becoming less and less relevant these days, and content is becoming easier to create and manage. As a network engineer, I see the writing on the wall, and I moving away from that stuff as fast as I can.


That's pretty amusing. Management and content types have been telling themselves that developers are largely irrelevant for a couple decades now. This fallacy is easily debunked when you stop for a moment and consider who writes the plugins for your CMS of choice, who audits these tools for security concerns, and who issues patches as needed.

Simply put people with little inclination to learn the technology have been able to put together glib vanity websites since Geocities was unveiled, the tools to do this sort of thing have just gotten more sophisticated. However, to do anything serious requires (and will continue to require) the skills of a trained professional.


In reply to:
It is amazing to me that you can create and mange a pretty cool website, with almost zero html/css knowledge these days.

I suspect our definitions of "pretty cool website" differ wildly, but I definitely agree with what you're saying. There are at least three open source content management systems that allow you to bolt together a pretty full-featured website with little or no understanding of code, markup or styling required.



Full disclosure:

I am a professional web developer active in the Drupal community. I have vetted Wordpress, Joomla and Movable Type for various projects and have dismissed them for anything beyond simple blogging or brochureware.


pico23


Jul 6, 2009, 11:42 PM
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Same here as far as promotion. Although silent promotion since the creation of the blog was really just to eliminate emailing people 5MB trip reports. It turns out not "advertising" is the best advertising when it comes to landscapes at least.

I think you can convert your blogger domain to whatever you want, I haven't done it because I really occassionally have intentions of a proper website sometime. The advantage of letting google host it is that it doesn't cost anything at all in terms of bandwidth. I figured out I could use Picasa and google pages to store images for my blog so I didn't have to pay for server space. This is the ultimate in being cheap, once I realized that using my domain host was a bad idea as MBs add up fast towards my 5GB limit.

But another tip is Google allows you to (term might be wrong) port email through google using your domain.

For instance, I own mvpress.net and mountainvisionsphotography.com but prefer the short mvpress.net since it's less keystrokes. However, mvpress.net is just a domain with no goodies which I'm paying $2.99 a year to hang onto.

However, I now have email with up to 50 inboxes with a XXXXX@mvpress.net address (no google subdomain) and 7GB of storage. Plus have access to google calendars and docs, among other goodies.

The reason I bring this up is email through your web host can be pricey or stingy (cost nothing but be very limited). Google offers a ton of "hidden" services that you just need to find and exploit. Plus, google mail is pretty accessible on most mobile devices.


krillen


Aug 5, 2009, 8:19 AM
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So what would you guys recommend for the following:

- A Photoblog of sorts (not much text at all, maybe a small paragraph describing who/what/where/when)
- Groups/galleries displaying latest content but image protection to keep people from stealing you hardwork. This is one reason I'd prefer not to externally store my images on Flikr etc.
- Ideally, I'd like to have a login (of sorts) so individuals or certain groups can see specific content that is meant for them (e.g. - Climbers don't want to see 40,00 pics or my kids, but my Mom sure does).

Also, what do you guys use for image tagging? Does Wordpress have the functionality to do this for mass image groupings as well as individuals?


knieveltech


Aug 5, 2009, 8:28 AM
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krillen wrote:
So what would you guys recommend for the following:

- A Photoblog of sorts (not much text at all, maybe a small paragraph describing who/what/where/when)
- Groups/galleries displaying latest content but image protection to keep people from stealing you hardwork. This is one reason I'd prefer not to externally store my images on Flikr etc.
- Ideally, I'd like to have a login (of sorts) so individuals or certain groups can see specific content that is meant for them (e.g. - Climbers don't want to see 40,00 pics or my kids, but my Mom sure does).

If you're serious about trying to protect your work on the internet your only options are displaying low quality images and/or watermarking. It is not possible to prevent someone from copying an image off of your website.

You're going to run into non-trivial problems with groups/permissions if you attempt to implement what you're describing in Wordpress. This is a well known limitation of that CMS. I would suggest taking a look at Joomla as it offers a decent option between the easy (but very limited) Wordpress and the incredibly flexible (but complex) Drupal.

Also, what do you guys use for image tagging? Does Wordpress have the functionality to do this for mass image groupings as well as individuals?


krillen


Aug 5, 2009, 10:34 AM
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I realize the limitations of trying to protect content on the web, but at the very least, a flash gallery will limit it to screen capturing in stead of a straight "save as".

There is also the transparent gif overlay which works similarly to flash in terms of protection. Anyone use this?

Watermarking is fine, but for it to be truly useful it would need to interfere with the photo subject/composition.


knieveltech


Aug 5, 2009, 11:56 AM
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krillen wrote:
I realize the limitations of trying to protect content on the web, but at the very least, a flash gallery will limit it to screen capturing in stead of a straight "save as".

There is also the transparent gif overlay which works similarly to flash in terms of protection. Anyone use this?

Watermarking is fine, but for it to be truly useful it would need to interfere with the photo subject/composition.

Hey, it's cool, just throwing some info out there. Never can tell who knows what, especially on the interwebs.

That transparent gif trick is about as effective as disabling rightclick with javascript. It'll scrape off your average soccer mom but hitting "view source" and going after the image file directly isn't difficult. As far as limiting options to screen capture, since that's going to net the image at the largest display size available on the site that'll fit on a single monitor, is adding a layer of complexity (flash, javascript, css tricks) to your site worth the effort?


wes_allen


Aug 5, 2009, 12:07 PM
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If you put images on the web for the public to view, you have lost control of how they will be used. Period. I got over people using my images for personal use a couple years ago, though I still take any unauthorized commercial use very seriously.

For the website question - I don't use wordpress's photo stuff, I use a coppermine gallery, then just link to the photos from the blog. Just works easier for me. Coppermine has some options for users and groups with password access, so that might be a way to show your kids photos to a select set of people. Otherwise, wordpress with any of the free photos templates should work fine.


krillen


Aug 5, 2009, 12:09 PM
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In the past I've used Photoshop's Image Gallery generator (in the automation menu) to create basic Flash Image galleries. Realistically, this seems to still be the best way (for me). Unfortunately I don't know how to tag, and track tags using that option.

It doesn't seem like there's much you can do other than keep your image sizes small, use flash, and watermark the images if you want to have content on the web.


kriso9tails


Aug 5, 2009, 1:50 PM
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I think it's better to use the resolution you want to use. If someone is going to steal my image, I'd rather them steal an appropriate size instead of ripping off a small version and blowing up to look like garbage.

At this point, it seems mostly accepted that whatever you put up online is at risk of getting stolen. A tasteful water mark may help direct some traffic your way for people people simply linking the image to a blog of forum board... although I tend to gloss over them in most cases myself.

Entering metadata is important in my opinion. I'm not sure where the Orphaned Works Act is at right now (or how it applies across borders... I mean, I'm not exactly a copyright lawyer or anything), but it's harder for a company to defend ripping your work off if you've been embedding your relevant personal info.

Even then, if you aren't copyrighting your images, I'm not sure just how much of a defense you have against for-profit abuse.

Umm... I had a point somewhere. What was it? Oh, yes, I think that something along these lines may be the way to go.

It encourages people to link the image using the readily copied html that embeds the image with the sales link (or site link if you wanted). Unfortunately, sites like this don't allow html in posts that I'm aware of.

(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Aug 5, 2009, 1:57 PM)


guangzhou


Aug 5, 2009, 6:08 PM
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Try smugmug. You ca protect you images and create galleries. The site offers a site if you choose the pro account, you can have you own domain name with no smugmug in the tittle and you can sell prints too.

http://smugmug.com/

No real code experience need. A basic click and drag system.

E


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