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jughead23


Jul 15, 2009, 4:33 PM
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snoopy138


Jul 15, 2009, 4:57 PM
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Re: [jughead23] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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I don't know a damn thing about the area, but if you go to its info page on here there's a notice from '06 saying that it's closed to climbing by the landowners. Unless that's changed (and maybe it has, if you're TRing there regularly), I wouldn't suggest bolting it.


jughead23


Jul 15, 2009, 5:21 PM
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healyje


Jul 15, 2009, 5:59 PM
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Re: [jughead23] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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Look no futher than right here on RC.com:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ern_Region/Krahlick/


Hennessey


Jul 15, 2009, 7:03 PM
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Re: [jughead23] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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jughead23 wrote:
by the way pick up your damn trash and beware of the snakes!

maybe if idoits didn't trash up the place and didn't climb in areas that we arn't permitted to climb in, we might eventually gain access back to there


healyje


Jul 15, 2009, 10:36 PM
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Re: [jughead23] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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jughead23 wrote:
as far as closed... yeeeeaaa no. there is traffic and no signs saying other wise. as i have also been told by the access coordinator for the region it is open to climb. so... if anyone knows the landowner or his where abouts to grant permission to bolt or not to bolt. bolting being the question this just may happen. not only for the safety of climbers but for the welfare of the environment. by the way pick up your damn trash and beware of the snakes!

"the region it is open to climb" - Are you kidding? "Region"? Dude, it's private property - not a "region" - if it isn't your property then stay the hell off of it unless and until the owner explicitly makes arrangements to allow climbing. As posted up here - it's currently closed. Now the AF might be open to contacting the owner and talking about that - but folks like you trespassing in the meantime will do nothing but poison the waters for such talks.


knieveltech


Jul 16, 2009, 1:03 AM
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Re: [jughead23] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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jughead23 wrote:
as far as closed... yeeeeaaa no. there is traffic and no signs saying other wise. as i have also been told by the access coordinator for the region it is open to climb. so... if anyone knows the landowner or his where abouts to grant permission to bolt or not to bolt. bolting being the question this just may happen. not only for the safety of climbers but for the welfare of the environment. by the way pick up your damn trash and beware of the snakes!


Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. If the area's getting traffic that might just mean there's a bunch of lazy douchebags in the region who can't be bothered to keep up with the local access situation. Then again, the info on here could be out of date (doubt it).

If it turns out the area is in fact open to access then congrats and go talk to the landowner about putting in some anchors (Seriously, what the fuck are you thinking? asking permission to bolt on private property on rc.com???). If the area actually is closed and you've been poaching, well, don't come whining to us if you end up with a butt-cheek full of rock salt and a warrant out for trespassing.


charley


Jul 16, 2009, 4:41 AM
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Re: [knieveltech] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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I emailed the local accessfund rep yesterday and he said as far as he knows it's still closed. There is not much you can do on private land.
I have heard if you join the gun club you have access to the rock.


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 6:07 AM
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Re: [knieveltech] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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knieveltech wrote:
jughead23 wrote:
as far as closed... yeeeeaaa no. there is traffic and no signs saying other wise. as i have also been told by the access coordinator for the region it is open to climb. so... if anyone knows the landowner or his where abouts to grant permission to bolt or not to bolt. bolting being the question this just may happen. not only for the safety of climbers but for the welfare of the environment. by the way pick up your damn trash and beware of the snakes!


Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. If the area's getting traffic that might just mean there's a bunch of lazy douchebags in the region who can't be bothered to keep up with the local access situation. Then again, the info on here could be out of date (doubt it).

If it turns out the area is in fact open to access then congrats and go talk to the landowner about putting in some anchors (Seriously, what the fuck are you thinking? asking permission to bolt on private property on rc.com???). If the area actually is closed and you've been poaching, well, don't come whining to us if you end up with a butt-cheek full of rock salt and a warrant out for trespassing.

Exactly. think about this from the landowner's perspective. I used to own a large piece of property. I worked hard, saved up, and paid a lot of taxes to own it. So how happy was I when someone decided to extend an ATV trail across the back 40? Not very. I met them out there one day with my 12ga in hand. For all you trespassers, how'd you like it if we kicked in the door to your apartment and crashed out on your couch without asking permission? Would you feel a bit defensive about your property?

My other concern was, someone stupid/rude enough to build an ATV trail (or climb in this case) across private land without permission is likely also stupid/rude enough to sue ME when they hurt themselves somehow.


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 6:45 AM
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Re: [knieveltech] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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knieveltech wrote:
Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit.

This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred.

An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly.

I'm not encouraging private property revolt... I'm just sayin....

DMT

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on Jul 16, 2009, 6:46 AM)


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 6:48 AM
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Re: [dynosore] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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dynosore wrote:
I met them out there one day with my 12ga in hand.

Oh good god...

DMT


knieveltech


Jul 16, 2009, 6:57 AM
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Re: [dingus] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
knieveltech wrote:
Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit.

This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred.

An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly.

I'm not encouraging private property revolt... I'm just sayin....

DMT

DMT

Yeah, from the legal "can the landowner have me tooled" perspective you're right, and that was an oversight on my part.


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 7:00 AM
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Re: [knieveltech] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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No worries. I grew up in rural New Jersey and Tennessee and as a roamer I have had lots of experience hopping fences.

The 'sign' is EVERYTHING when it comes to tresspass.

For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk.

I got shot at once in Tennessee, though I don't think he was really aiming at us... not like the guy in Cali who sent a tumbling bullet right over our heads.

And when the guy meets you with a shotgun? Tell him he's a PUSSY.

DMT


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 7:12 AM
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Re: [dingus] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
dynosore wrote:
I met them out there one day with my 12ga in hand.

Oh good god...

DMT

Yes dingus, we all know you think self defense is foolish. Just go unarmed and "hope" the trespassers play nice. I have every right to carry a firearm on my property, deal with it. I found a patch of weed someone was growing on the adjacent state land before, you'd be a fool to confront some of these people unarmed. I play it cool and friendly but they got my point.


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 7:19 AM
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Re: [dingus] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk.
DMT

I have a better idea: don't go on land that someone else bought, pays taxes on, and maintains without their permission. If yuu just have to climb there so bad, get a job and buy the land from them, instead of stealing access to something that's not yours. Geesh. You really want to climb a rock so bad that you're willing to trespass to do it? Selfish.....


(This post was edited by dynosore on Jul 16, 2009, 7:20 AM)


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 7:21 AM
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dynosore wrote:
Yes dingus, we all know you think self defense is foolish.

Self defense, lol. Yes I'm sure the aggro, mean dirty rotten mountain bikers threatened your safety lol.

DMT


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 7:23 AM
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Re: [dynosore] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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dynosore wrote:
dingus wrote:
For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk.
DMT

I have a better idea: don't go on land that someone else bought, pays taxes on, and maintains without their permission.

Stand in line, do as your told, put your foot here, place your hand there, stay the fuck off MY land.

Nah. I don't like YOUR way.

DMT


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 7:29 AM
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dingus wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Yes dingus, we all know you think self defense is foolish.

Self defense, lol. Yes I'm sure the aggro, mean dirty rotten mountain bikers threatened your safety lol.

DMT

I had to escort more than one hunter off my land that somehow didn't see the bright orange signs placed every 30 feet. You may rely on the good will of someone who knowingly breaks the law and trespasses, but I don't.


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 7:31 AM
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dingus wrote:
dynosore wrote:
dingus wrote:
For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk.
DMT

I have a better idea: don't go on land that someone else bought, pays taxes on, and maintains without their permission.

Stand in line, do as your told, put your foot here, place your hand there, stay the fuck off MY land.

Nah. I don't like YOUR way.

DMT

I'm not surprised; you come off as a self centered jerk, I don't care how great your climbing stories may be, your attitude is selfish and immature. You know it belongs to someone else but you want to go there anyways, so you do. I'm sure if you were on the other end of the situation you might not be so thrilled about having strangers wander onto your property with intentions unknown.


dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 7:49 AM
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Re: [dynosore] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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You're right I am selfish and immature. And I don't respect large tract owners right to lock up our country, that is a fact too.

A man's home is his castle, I agree with this. The house and immediate yard surroundings - sacrosanct.

But large tract owners? Locking the whole thing up?

This whole god and private property thing, built on stolen land, makes my teeth hurt. Esp. if the landowner has never served her country.

So yes I will continue to be immature and selfish and bag peaks on land where access is somewhat in question. I will not advise folks to stand in line and do as they are told. I will not submit damnit!

BwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Up yours dynosore!

DMT


markc


Jul 16, 2009, 7:52 AM
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Re: [dynosore] Why is this place not bolted? [In reply to]
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Just for some perspective, the area in question was open to climbing for a long time. It was closed relatively recently when the land changed hands. (The area has a lot of state game lands, and many of us were unaware that it was private property prior to the sale and closing.) Fred, the owner of Exkursion, was in touch with the new owners back in 2006, but was unable to negotiate access. I've heard of individuals climbing there since the closure, but have heard no confirmation about official approval from the landowners.

To complicate matters, it seems you can buy membership to the gun club that bought the land to get access, but that it's still officially closed to the public. I can see this leading to some confusion. If anyone can provide details on gaining individual permission to climb there, it would be appreciated. Everything is pretty much vague hearsay. Personally, I won't climb there unless I have individual permission, or until it's reopened to climbers as a whole. I wouldn't want my personal actions to impact the chances of future access. Jughead, who did you speak to exactly? Please don't bolt unless you have clear permission from landowners. If the area is closed, I can't see bright new anchors being viewed kindly.


dynosore


Jul 16, 2009, 8:00 AM
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dingus wrote:
You're right I am selfish and immature. And I don't respect large tract owners right to lock up our country, that is a fact too.

A man's home is his castle, I agree with this. The house and immediate yard surroundings - sacrosanct.

But large tract owners? Locking the whole thing up?

This whole god and private property thing, built on stolen land, makes my teeth hurt. Esp. if the landowner has never served her country.

So yes I will continue to be immature and selfish and bag peaks on land where access is somewhat in question. I will not advise folks to stand in line and do as they are told. I will not submit damnit!

BwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Up yours dynosore!

DMT

So how much can we own before YOU have a right to violate our property, Mr. Hypocrite? I had 96 acres, and my home was on it, so you have a right to come on it at will? I was more than willing to share it, and let peopel hunt, cut firewood, fish in the pond, etc. But they were INVITED.

How about next time I'm out your way I park my travel trailer in your front yard for a week, I mean, it won't really hurt you and I'm sure you won't mind since you're so into sharing. Oh, I see, it only works one way....nice attitude. Think about it......


(This post was edited by dynosore on Jul 16, 2009, 8:01 AM)


jughead23


Jul 16, 2009, 8:04 AM
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dingus


Jul 16, 2009, 8:19 AM
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2 acres.

DMT


markc


Jul 16, 2009, 8:50 AM
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jughead23 wrote:
back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.

Please consider the consequences to going to Krahlick, even if it isn't currently posted. If the landowners don't want climbers there, being found there or leaving evidence of your presence (fresh chalk and especially bolts) won't help with future access.

As I said, I don't have details. I'm going out of town shortly, but I can see what I can learn when I get back. If I get solid information, I'll be happy to post up.

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