Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Indoor Gyms:
Indoor grades < outdoor grades
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Indoor Gyms

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


FriendOfMonoPockets


Aug 27, 2009, 6:42 PM
Post #1 of 45 (4935 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2009
Posts: 36

Indoor grades < outdoor grades
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Is it just my gym or do all gyms have extremely different climbing grades when compared to outside.

Inside I climb V8 but outside I climb V5/V6. Is this the same with all gyms? There all sandbagged? Or are most gyms more alike outdoor grades?


rhythm164


Aug 27, 2009, 6:59 PM
Post #2 of 45 (4929 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 964

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

sounds like your gym is fluffing


rock_fencer


Aug 27, 2009, 7:14 PM
Post #3 of 45 (4913 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2005
Posts: 752

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

i usually er on the side of sandbagging an indoor route. This way people a) dont go outside and get themselves in trouble cause they think they can climb 5.10 b) make people humble c) i dislike the gym climbers who only climb in the gym and spray


acorneau


Aug 27, 2009, 7:28 PM
Post #4 of 45 (4892 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

FriendOfMonoPockets wrote:
Is it just my gym or do all gyms have extremely different climbing grades when compared to outside.

Inside I climb V8 but outside I climb V5/V6. Is this the same with all gyms? There all sandbagged? Or are most gyms more alike outdoor grades?

It depends.

I've been to some climbing areas that felt spot-on compared to my gym, and I've been to other areas where I got schooled.


JasonsDrivingForce


Aug 27, 2009, 7:49 PM
Post #5 of 45 (4884 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687

Re: [acorneau] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Every once in a while our gym throws a challenging little problem up and slaps a big old V1+ on it. Just to keep everyone honest. They also have the crimpiest little V2 I have ever seen. It makes my fingers hurt just looking at it. Crazy


Bats


Aug 27, 2009, 8:07 PM
Post #6 of 45 (4872 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 485

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It all depends on your route setters...my climbing buddies are like the best in town, and very close to outdoor ratings. I think its, because on their free days they are climbing outside somewhere. One of them even try to duplicate an outdoor climb moves. Some of the other route setters are all over the place. The one of them, his climbing skills are 5.11s, but he can never figure out the ratings on his routes.He will get the us regulars to rate it, and which ever rating keeps coming up, that is what he will use.


shockabuku


Aug 27, 2009, 8:41 PM
Post #7 of 45 (4853 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4856

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's a subjective thing, so there's some variance from person to person, place to place. Different types of terrain, stone, strengths and weaknesses, route reading, etc. all play into it.


crazy_fingers84


Aug 28, 2009, 12:31 AM
Post #8 of 45 (4807 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 418

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

my manager at the gym i set at has asked me in the past to sandbag. his concern is that people will think that they are better than they really are and hurt themselves outside. we typically sandbag boulder problems one grade and routes two grades... all in all in works out.


FriendOfMonoPockets


Aug 28, 2009, 8:26 AM
Post #9 of 45 (4737 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2009
Posts: 36

Re: [Bats] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Bats wrote:
It all depends on your route setters...my climbing buddies are like the best in town, and very close to outdoor ratings. I think its, because on their free days they are climbing outside somewhere. One of them even try to duplicate an outdoor climb moves. Some of the other route setters are all over the place. The one of them, his climbing skills are 5.11s, but he can never figure out the ratings on his routes.He will get the us regulars to rate it, and which ever rating keeps coming up, that is what he will use.

Yeah I like this idea better. I think having the people who climb the routes vote on a grade is a better method.


chadnsc


Aug 28, 2009, 8:37 AM
Post #10 of 45 (4725 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm pretty fortunate that the gym that I frequent (Vertical Endeavors, Duluth MN) has routes whose grades are very similar to outdoor grades. If anything the gym tends to error on the safe side and down-grade their routes when unsure. (This upsets visiting climbers from another VE in St. Paul. Then again these same St. Paul climbers think the majority of the routes we climb on the North Shore are sandbagged.)


squishy654


Aug 28, 2009, 8:41 AM
Post #11 of 45 (4718 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 18, 2008
Posts: 137

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

here's a good read about this subject:

http://www.summitpost.org/...iewtopic.php?t=47330


(This post was edited by squishy654 on Aug 28, 2009, 8:42 AM)


lodi5onu


Aug 28, 2009, 8:43 AM
Post #12 of 45 (4717 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 26, 2006
Posts: 335

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So are you climbing at ET or Sportrock?


Neel


Aug 28, 2009, 11:31 AM
Post #13 of 45 (4630 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 21, 2008
Posts: 116

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

FriendOfMonoPockets wrote:
Is it just my gym or do all gyms have extremely different climbing grades when compared to outside.

Inside I climb V8 but outside I climb V5/V6. Is this the same with all gyms? There all sandbagged? Or are most gyms more alike outdoor grades?

Gym climbers often have a hard time route finding and sequencing outdoors, which makes the grades seem harder. In the gym everything is obvious, and taped, or whatever, plus you learn to look at a hold and know whether it's a pocket, a crimp, a sloper, whatever - whereas outdoors it's a lot harder to tell. Plus some ratings were made years ago and the surface has since become overly polished so you have less friction.

As others have said gym grades vary - the gym i go to usually puts up routes and leaves them for a week or so without a rating until they get a general consensus on what the grade should be. I'd rather have a grade sandbagged than be soft. I remember going to a different gym in my area and finding i could climb a full letter grade higher. I think the routesetters there are kids who like to inflate their egos.


FriendOfMonoPockets


Aug 28, 2009, 6:53 PM
Post #14 of 45 (4592 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2009
Posts: 36

Re: [lodi5onu] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lodi5onu wrote:
So are you climbing at ET or Sportrock?
Sportrock. You climb at PRG?


bennydh


Aug 28, 2009, 6:59 PM
Post #15 of 45 (4588 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2005
Posts: 368

Re: [rhythm164] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rhythm164 wrote:
sounds like your gym is fluffing

Rad, when do they do the filming?


Bats


Aug 28, 2009, 7:02 PM
Post #16 of 45 (4587 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 485

Re: [Neel] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sounds like my buddy...but I have no clue why he is routesetting in Canada. Cool


Partner abe_ascends


Aug 28, 2009, 7:28 PM
Post #17 of 45 (4575 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 367

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

FriendOfMonoPockets wrote:
Is it just my gym or do all gyms have extremely different climbing grades when compared to outside.

Inside I climb V8 but outside I climb V5/V6. Is this the same with all gyms? There all sandbagged? Or are most gyms more alike outdoor grades?

Apples to oranges.


asiaclimber


Aug 28, 2009, 11:00 PM
Post #18 of 45 (4507 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 214

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

grades in my gym and most of Japan, are graded harder indoors then outdoors. when i asked my gym owner why he said because outside is more dangerous and scary falls so it is important to be better then the grade you think you are getting on. imo, it actually makes more sense then the american way of fluffing grades.


spoon


Aug 29, 2009, 1:23 AM
Post #19 of 45 (4485 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 312

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's hard to accurately compare grades indoors with those outdoors unless you climb in both places a lot. Indoor and outdoor climbing are separate sports that happen to have a great deal in common, but it's easy to be better at one then the other and think that means that either first ascensionists or route setters are sandbagging as a result.


dagibbs


Sep 3, 2009, 10:21 AM
Post #20 of 45 (4306 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 880

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Grades vary all over the place. I've climbed at some 23 different climbing gyms accross North America and Europe, including 16 accross the US, and they vary. With little variance in my climbing ability, I've been unable to complete 5.8 routes (Connecticut) and finished a 5.11b (California).

All I've grown to hope for is that the grades be consistent within the gym in question.

I'll note that outdoor grades are, also, not consistent. There's a local crag with a 5.9 route on it that I can't even start, yet I've sent a 5 pitch 5.10c route (Satori, El Potrero Chico).

Even given the same difficulty, that is, the moves are technically as challenging, and outdoor climb will feel more difficult on first try. Inside, you're half way to having it wired, because you already know where all the holds are, you just have to figure out the moves. Outside, you have to figure out not just what the moves are, but where the holds are. Now, on a well-chalked climb (especially a popular boulder problem) this will be less of an issue. But it is, often, still an issue. Especially getting to less-travelled climbs.


boulderTroll


Sep 3, 2009, 10:56 AM
Post #21 of 45 (4288 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 3, 2008
Posts: 11

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

the gym i go to here in cali has the worst ratings i have seen. 95% of the time the ratings are two or three grades above what it would be outside,Crazy so a v7 inside would be a v4 outside and a .12a inside would be a hard .10 outside. then there are the occasional (once every four months) routes that is sandbagged and close to the outside rating, and none of the gym rats get those routes. the gym i have been to in oregon had some accurate ratings but there was the occasional sandbagged route because some of the setters thought they could rate it without climbing it.Crazy


USnavy


Sep 4, 2009, 6:27 PM
Post #22 of 45 (4204 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2660

Re: [] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

I laugh when I hear someone say they intentionally sandbag or fluff gym grades. Why the hell would someone intentionally assign an incorrect grade? Doing such completely nullifies the point of having a grading system... Crazy


(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 4, 2009, 6:28 PM)


psecody


Oct 17, 2009, 11:02 AM
Post #23 of 45 (3751 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 94

Re: [USnavy] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I honestly feel like outdoor grades are on with what I climb in the gyms I climb in (except the college's and they only have 2 routes with ratings on them so they don't count) but for me regardless of the grade outdoor climbing is harder just because you can't really see the holds or know what type of holds they are until you're already up there.


dynosore


Oct 17, 2009, 12:14 PM
Post #24 of 45 (3726 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1760

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

FriendOfMonoPockets wrote:
Is it just my gym or do all gyms have extremely different climbing grades when compared to outside.

Inside I climb V8 but outside I climb V5/V6. Is this the same with all gyms? There all sandbagged? Or are most gyms more alike outdoor grades?

I could only climb 9's at my gym (I had been climbing about a year). I went to Devil's Lake for my first outdoors trip and onsighted more than one 10a-b, on toprope. My understanding is that DL is considered stiff for the grade. My next trip was to the Black Hills, not the place to do your first trad climbing Shocked


mleogrande


Oct 17, 2009, 12:37 PM
Post #25 of 45 (3714 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 6, 2009
Posts: 48

Re: [FriendOfMonoPockets] Indoor grades < outdoor grades [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ratings are totally subjective. I think indoor ratings should be strict. I live in Florida where there is no outside climbing. So when I go on a trip I want to be able to do the same ratings as I do in the gym. My gym is strict and technical and I never traveled somewhere and couldn't climb the same ratings.

You'll find a lot of people stuggle outside when compared to inside. My best friend here in Florida relies on indoor colored tape too much. When he goes outside he mentally breaks down and can't read the route or climb with confidence.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Indoor Gyms

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook