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ajcarrico


Aug 31, 2009, 12:13 PM
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dropping my nuts
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Every once in a while when I grab my nut biner off my harness and choose a nut to place, some of the nuts will become tangled and open up the gate thus spilling nuts everywhere. Like they way a rope can open a back clipped draw in a fall.

I'm super conscious about this, but every once in a while no matter how careful I think I'm being they decide to go for a ride. I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Of course this ONLY happens on alpine climbs at least 4 pitches up. (feel free to scour the base of incredible hulk for 1/2 set of bd nuts).

Does anyone have a simple process they go through every time, like shake the biner before deracking it or anything similar? Its only a matter of time before I kill someone by dropping a #12 on their head.


gmggg


Aug 31, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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Which way does your biner face?

You could try clipping it spine out - gate up like a super cool sport climber. That way when you depress the gate to unrack the biner it will hold the nuts in place and your movement will all be in a smooth upward motion.

This is just a guess though as I have never encountered this exact problem. Although I still suck at jostling around a loaded biner with a full set with one hand so what do I know...


ajcarrico


Aug 31, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Re: [gmggg] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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I do rack it out gate up. Things don't generally start flying till I've chosen a nut and raised it up to place it. I rack 1 full set (10 nuts) to a biner. I almost never bring any more than that on any climb.
One of my partners said she had the same problem but solved it by just bringing a zillion cams.


Tipton


Aug 31, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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ajcarrico wrote:
Every once in a while when I grab my nut biner off my harness and choose a nut to place, some of the nuts will become tangled and open up the gate thus spilling nuts everywhere. Like they way a rope can open a back clipped draw in a fall.

I'm super conscious about this, but every once in a while no matter how careful I think I'm being they decide to go for a ride. I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Of course this ONLY happens on alpine climbs at least 4 pitches up. (feel free to scour the base of incredible hulk for 1/2 set of bd nuts).

Does anyone have a simple process they go through every time, like shake the biner before deracking it or anything similar? Its only a matter of time before I kill someone by dropping a #12 on their head.

Are you saying you put all the nuts on one 'biner? If so, try splitting up the set across two 'biners. And since dropping them seems to be an issue for you, divide them so there is a variety of small and large on each 'biner so if you do drop some you will still have options.


gmggg


Aug 31, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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ajcarrico wrote:
I do rack it out gate up. Things don't generally start flying till I've chosen a nut and raised it up to place it. I rack 1 full set (10 nuts) to a biner. I almost never bring any more than that on any climb.
One of my partners said she had the same problem but solved it by just bringing a zillion cams.

Ohh... sounds like the same problems I have then Smile

I just haven't been unfortunate enough to drop them yet. I have heard the suggestion above (splitting every other nut onto two biners) and I have never tried it. I guess that is a testament to my stupidity, as it is always suggested and praised as a solution to myriad problems.


saltydog


Aug 31, 2009, 12:42 PM
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Re: [gmggg] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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make sure nuts are hanging nice, grab nutbiner from rack/harness.

close biner, sort/find/place nut.

unclip biner from nut, hang sling/draw.

replace biner on rack/harness.

seems the "key" is to make sure all other nuts are hanging nicely before each "step", kinda like when you are trying to open the car door with a ring full of 20 keys and two arms full of groceries/BEER....sorta.


Partner cracklover


Aug 31, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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Here's your problem:

ajcarrico wrote:
I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Never do that ^^^

You're welcome.

GO


tarsier


Aug 31, 2009, 1:45 PM
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Re: [saltydog] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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saltydog wrote:
seems the "key" is to make sure all other nuts are hanging nicely before each "step", kinda like when you are trying to open the car door with a ring full of 20 keys and two arms full of groceries/BEER....sorta.

Nice analogy. Just do that and be careful. And stop dropping your nuts.


saltydog


Aug 31, 2009, 1:53 PM
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Re: [cracklover] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
Here's your problem:

ajcarrico wrote:
I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Never do that ^^^

You're welcome.

GO

yes, sometimes a notched biner keeps those buggers from slipping off into the depths...


skibum14


Aug 31, 2009, 1:56 PM
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Re: [Tipton] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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Tipton wrote:
Are you saying you put all the nuts on one 'biner? If so, try splitting up the set across two 'biners. And since dropping them seems to be an issue for you, divide them so there is a variety of small and large on each 'biner so if you do drop some you will still have options.
Yeah, I had problems dropping them, so I switched to two 'biners and it's worked fine so far. I use Heliums, so it's not much extra weight.


granite_grrl


Aug 31, 2009, 1:56 PM
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Re: [saltydog] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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saltydog wrote:
cracklover wrote:
Here's your problem:

ajcarrico wrote:
I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Never do that ^^^

You're welcome.

GO

yes, sometimes a notched biner keeps those buggers from slipping off into the depths...
Another vote for a notched nose to rack your wires.


marc801


Aug 31, 2009, 2:23 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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ajcarrico wrote:
Every once in a while when I grab my nut biner off my harness and choose a nut to place, some of the nuts will become tangled and open up the gate thus spilling nuts everywhere. Like they way a rope can open a back clipped draw in a fall.
1) As others have already posted, spread the nuts out over two or even three biners.

2) Figure out what size nut you need, reach down, remove only that nut from the biner, place nut and clip runner. If you grab just the nut you need and hold it up, the few other nuts slide to the back/bottom of the biner - then you slide selected nut over the gate and pull it off. A little practice allows you to do this one-handed, in one motion.


the1esteban


Aug 31, 2009, 2:33 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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ajcarrico wrote:
Every once in a while when I grab my nut biner off my harness and choose a nut to place, some of the nuts will become tangled and open up the gate thus spilling nuts everywhere. Like they way a rope can open a back clipped draw in a fall.

I'm super conscious about this, but every once in a while no matter how careful I think I'm being they decide to go for a ride. I've been using a large key lock solid gate biner for some time now.

Of course this ONLY happens on alpine climbs at least 4 pitches up. (feel free to scour the base of incredible hulk for 1/2 set of bd nuts).

Does anyone have a simple process they go through every time, like shake the biner before deracking it or anything similar? Its only a matter of time before I kill someone by dropping a #12 on their head.

How many times does this happen to you??
It must suck to be your belayer. Hope you don't drop that #12 on their head!


jorgegonzalez


Aug 31, 2009, 2:52 PM
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Re: [the1esteban] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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I also rack my nuts on two biners, but I don't mix them. I want the small ones on one, the larger ones on another, so that if one doesn't fit I can find the next size up or down on the same biner. That's better than re-racking the biner and pulling out the other one with nuts.

But, its not the method that's important, its the practice at grabbing your gear and managing it that's important. I rack my biners different ways at different times b/c it doesn't much matter (6 of one, half dozen of the other). What matters is that you know how you racked them and that you get familiar with grabbing the right biner with a minimum of movement, making sure to maintain a good grasp as you quickly scan them over and find the right size. Its a question of concentration and confidence, if your stressing and panicky, perhaps you should concentrate on getting better footing to support yourself before you make a mad desperate move for your nut biner. Once you select the right one, put it in your mouth and let the other nuts drop to the bottom, so only the one you want will be facing the rock as you put it in. Then you calmly pull that biner off, re-rack it, and replace it with a draw to put some nylon into the mix allowing the rope to pull up and down without pulling out your piece.

You'll get better with time. Practice at the bottom of the cliffs before you launch off onto lead climbs.


moose_droppings


Aug 31, 2009, 3:04 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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I got two biners for carrying nuts. Neither one comes off my harness when I need one. I rack them with the gate opening out and down. When I need one, I'll slide the loop of the nut to the gate opening and twist the loop so it pops the gate and off slips the nut I need. It's pretty simple with a little practice. I also use a notched gate biner, an oval wiregate to rack wires on.


mr.tastycakes


Aug 31, 2009, 4:20 PM
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make that a 4th vote for a notched biner.

also, i usually place the nut while it's still on the racking 'biner, then take it off the racking biner. that way if i grab the wrong size I don't have to fumble around putting the nut back on the 'biner.


harpo_the_climber


Aug 31, 2009, 5:04 PM
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Re: [mr.tastycakes] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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yup


sungam


Aug 31, 2009, 5:22 PM
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Re: [ajcarrico] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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If you don't put so many on one beaner it's easier to jiggle it about and have them settle without any unclipping.


notapplicable


Aug 31, 2009, 5:32 PM
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Re: [harpo_the_climber] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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I've found that the notched nose biners snag the wires at all the wrong times and actually cause more fumblings than they prevent. FWIW I've never dropped a nut during the racking/unracking process, dropped a few while placing or cleaning them but not while taking them on or off the biner.

I guess that just highlights the subtle difference between how we all place gear.


healyje


Aug 31, 2009, 6:42 PM
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Maybe climb easier routes if you're dropping gear that often...?


ajcarrico


Sep 1, 2009, 9:39 AM
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Re: [notapplicable] dropping my nuts [In reply to]
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Yeah I've read the countless "which biner is best for racking nuts" posts and the consensus seems to be that there is no consensus and some like ovals some Ds some notched some not.

Its not that I'm really sketched out when this has happened, but I guess its never happened on no hands rests.
I suppose I'll have to give in and say that 1 set is too much on 1 biner and spread them over two.

Thanks for all the super quick responses guys!


ptlong


Sep 1, 2009, 10:01 AM
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ajcarrico wrote:
I suppose I'll have to give in and say that 1 set is too much on 1 biner and spread them over two.

Go ahead and jump to that conclusion. Maybe one nut per carabiner would be the safest approach. Use auto-lockers.


marc801


Sep 1, 2009, 10:15 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
...dropped a few while ... cleaning them....
How is that possible?
You do leave the nut and sling clipped to the rope while cleaning it, don't you? And then clip it to your harness or gear sling after cleaning and before unclipping the runner from the rope, yes?


markc


Sep 1, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Having that many nuts per biner may be part of the problem. Half a set (4-5 nuts) per biner seems like a good ratio to me. That way, there's ample room at the ends of the biner for all of the nuts to rest. With 10+, I doubt there's adequate space for them, so they start bunching and interacting with the gate. Also, you may be screwed if you drop that much pro early in a pitch/climb.

I initially put my rack together on the cheap, and rack my nuts on solid-gate ovals. The nuts slide around easily as I unclip from my gear loop, select and place the piece, and then unclip. In some inattentive moments, the notched gate has saved a nut or two. If you're regularly dropping nuts, you might want to give it a go.


notapplicable


Sep 1, 2009, 11:04 AM
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marc801 wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
...dropped a few while ... cleaning them....
How is that possible?
You do leave the nut and sling clipped to the rope while cleaning it, don't you? And then clip it to your harness or gear sling after cleaning and before unclipping the runner from the rope, yes?

Yeah, I do now.Blush

The first one launched in to the abyss when I was first teaching myself to climb on (and clean) gear. Lesson learned.

I know I also fumbled one while placing it off to the side. Not realizing how wide the bottom of the constriction was, I turned it loose to adjust my foot placement and when I looked back it was gone.

There may have been more, those are the two I remember. No worries though, I've bootied more than that in a single day so I've got a few to spare.Tongue

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