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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 2:24 PM
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Looks like the Canon 7D will not disappoint. This article has a lot of broken English. However, 8 FPS, ISO 12800, 18 Megapixel, and 1080p video @ 30, 25, and 24 FPS is all I needed to hear.
http://www.canonrumors.com/...os-7d-press-release/
Panasonic should also announce the new 4/3s DMC-GF1 tomorrow or the next day.
Also a nice super zoom from Samsung
http://www.dcviews.com/...s/samsung-wb5000.htm
Lot’s of great cameras in our future!
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Aug 31, 2009, 2:34 PM)
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gmggg
Aug 31, 2009, 2:41 PM
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God damn it! Learn how to take pictures instead of drooling over useless gear!
Or, just save it for a photography forum...
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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 2:45 PM
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gmggg wrote: God damn it! Learn how to take pictures instead of drooling over useless gear! Or, just save it for a photography forum...
Let’s see how many other people here are interested in these cameras. I have a feeling I am not the only one. And last time I checked this forum is a “Climbing Photography “ forum. This is the perfect place to post this information. 
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dlintz
Aug 31, 2009, 2:55 PM
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7D? Nice but I'll keep my 1 Series.
As for the GF1.....ooooh, me likey!
d.
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gmggg
Aug 31, 2009, 3:07 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: gmggg wrote: God damn it! Learn how to take pictures instead of drooling over useless gear! Or, just save it for a photography forum... Let’s see how many other people here are interested in these cameras. I have a feeling I am not the only one. And last time I checked this forum is a “Climbing Photography “ forum. This is the perfect place to post this information.
Exactly, a "climbing photogrpahy" forum. Not a "blow smoke up the ass of the next new consumer whore POS camera" forum. Try asking questions about how to improve your shooting.
Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 3:35 PM
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gmggg wrote: Exactly, a "climbing photogrpahy" forum. Not a "blow smoke up the ass of the next new consumer whore POS camera" forum. Try asking questions about how to improve your shooting. Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you.
Do you ever post anything useful?
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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 3:38 PM
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dlintz wrote: 7D? Nice but I'll keep my 1 Series. As for the GF1.....ooooh, me likey! d.
Yea your 1 series is safe until at least next year according to the latest rumors. However, a nice 1DS MKIV would be pretty awesome. I bet it will cost a fortune though.
Which 1D series do you have?
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wes_allen
Aug 31, 2009, 3:38 PM
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gmggg wrote: Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you.
Depends, doesn't it. I mean, if you have a P&S or rebel xi and a kit lens and are trying to shoot something under tougher conditions, then a new camera/lens might help. If you don't have video and you want it, a new camera might help. If you already have pretty good gear, then a new body might not make much impact. If you have an OK body but crappy glass, then spending money on lenses might make sense. If you have a good body and good lenses, then maybe spending money on lighting gear might help. Or a nice tripod if you are into landscapes or hdr, etc.
So, new stuff doesn't auto-magically help, but I don't think the "gear doesn't matter" people are right either.
For the 7D - looks interesting, esp. as a back up to mark III or to complement a 5dII, etc. I am probably going to wait for 1d4, and hope they up the MP a little bit and add HD video and maybe a nicer LCD. Or just pick up another 1dIII, as the 7d release should bring the used prices down a bit, maybe to the low 2k range even.
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gmggg
Aug 31, 2009, 3:54 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: gmggg wrote: Exactly, a "climbing photogrpahy" forum. Not a "blow smoke up the ass of the next new consumer whore POS camera" forum. Try asking questions about how to improve your shooting. Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you. Do you ever post anything useful?
Garbage in, garbage out. This isn't a recycling center for idiocy.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 3:56 PM
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wes_allen wrote: gmggg wrote: Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you. For the 7D - looks interesting, esp. as a back up to mark III or to complement a 5dII, etc. I am probably going to wait for 1d4, and hope they up the MP a little bit and add HD video and maybe a nicer LCD. Or just pick up another 1dIII, as the 7d release should bring the used prices down a bit, maybe to the low 2k range even.
What kind of MP are you looking for in the 1d4? 15+? 20+? 25+? Just curious about where you think the breaking point is.
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gmggg
Aug 31, 2009, 4:03 PM
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wes_allen wrote: gmggg wrote: Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you. Depends, doesn't it. I mean, if you have a P&S or rebel xi and a kit lens and are trying to shoot something under tougher conditions, then a new camera/lens might help. If you don't have video and you want it, a new camera might help. If you already have pretty good gear, then a new body might not make much impact. If you have an OK body but crappy glass, then spending money on lenses might make sense. If you have a good body and good lenses, then maybe spending money on lighting gear might help. Or a nice tripod if you are into landscapes or hdr, etc. So, new stuff doesn't auto-magically help, but I don't think the "gear doesn't matter" people are right either. For the 7D - looks interesting, esp. as a back up to mark III or to complement a 5dII, etc. I am probably going to wait for 1d4, and hope they up the MP a little bit and add HD video and maybe a nicer LCD. Or just pick up another 1dIII, as the 7d release should bring the used prices down a bit, maybe to the low 2k range even.
Sorry, that was a second person you.
There are most certainly times when new gear is called for! esp. lenses and lights :)
My point isn't about gear (or cameras) as much as it is about propagating the hype that someone can buy there way into decent photographs.
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dlintz
Aug 31, 2009, 4:06 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: dlintz wrote: 7D? Nice but I'll keep my 1 Series. As for the GF1.....ooooh, me likey! d. Yea your 1 series is safe until at least next year according to the latest rumors. However, a nice 1DS MKIV would be pretty awesome. I bet it will cost a fortune though. Which 1D series do you have?
For my purposes a Mark IV wouldn't give me anything that I'm truly missing...and yeah, they won't be cheap! I have a 1Ds Mark II with around 9k on the shutter, she's just a baby.
Wes,
The sub $2500 1D Mark IIIs are out there. I've come close to negotiating a straight trade for my current body but I just can't give up the full frame.
d.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Aug 31, 2009, 4:20 PM
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gmggg wrote: My point isn't about gear (or cameras) as much as it is about propagating the hype that someone can buy there way into decent photographs.
I have never said that a new camera will make someone a photographer.
Now that being said new equipment can open up possibilities to a novice and it can make life a lot easier for a professional. I guess it could also open up new doors for a pro as well(Think video).
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pico23
Sep 1, 2009, 12:57 AM
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While I mostly agree with you, and think that if you are a good photographer the gear is really largely irrelevant except for large prints and mission critical quality, I also look at this forum as a more a general photography forum for climbers. Lets face it, other than those having to justify why they dropped $4k on a camera, and why they are happy they did, almost any DSLR since 2003 can and will produce a saleable/publishable image. So really all the tech talk post 2003 is a waste of time on any forum. Until a camera can make me coffee and toast I say we ban talk of photo gear.
As far as the climbing photography forum aspect of it. I climb, I photograph. I don't photograph climbing much. I have many reasons for this, none of which are because I suck or am too lazy. largely it's really just that I find climbing photography fairly boring, especially cragging. I do love seeing great mountaineering shots in big mountains, but lets be honest what makes those shots so amazing is the landscape aspect of them. Many of those scenes would be good without the climbers. I like the documentary aspect of big walls and expeditions. Looking at some chick or guy half naked crimping a bare wall and gritting his/her teeth with a contorted look on his/her face 20 ft off the ground at some urban crag does not do a lot for me.
The other aspect is when I am climbing, when I dedicate the time, money, and day that I could be doing something else (paddling, mountain biking, hiking, watching a game, fooling around with my wife or girlfriend in the sack, etc), I want to climb, not f'ck with a camera in a cluster f'ck of ropes and knots on a cliff. That might be different if I didn't have a job, and days off had minimal value to me (such as 2002-2003 when I was on un-enjoyment for almost a full year and climbed over 100 day on ice and rock in 6 months before saying goodbye to the crags for a boat and paddle), then I might say climb 4 days and sit in a harness while my nuts go numb the other two days snapping off images, and then on the 7th day sit behind a computer and edit said snaps.
On the tech end of it, I like knowing whats out, what could possibly help me. I also enjoy seeing different brands and some photography discussion that I might not have known about.
Besides, what would people really discuss on here if it wasn't gear? That is what photography has always been about. Even among professional photographers the first thing people do is eye your gear, or ask you what you shoot, and why? (assuming it isn't what they shoot)
gmggg wrote: God damn it! Learn how to take pictures instead of drooling over useless gear! Or, just save it for a photography forum...
(This post was edited by pico23 on Sep 1, 2009, 1:05 AM)
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wes_allen
Sep 1, 2009, 1:30 AM
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If they made the 1d4 16-18 mb, kept the high iso about the same, or improved it half a stop to a full stop (more in line with the 5dII), added the HD video with full controls, and gave it the 5dII lcd, I would be super psyched. The 5dII files are just a bit bigger then what I need most of the time, but would like a little bit more the the 10mp I have now with 1d3 and 40d.
I have seen a couple 1d3's for 2300 or so, would love to see them right at 2k, though it hurts to think I paid $4300 for mine not quite two years ago. And, I hear you on the FF part, though the 1.3 works pretty well most of the time, it is always kinda cool to put the WA glass on the 5dII, rather then the 1d3, where I use it most of the time.
And, this forum sorta switch between a lot of different skill levels/goals/etc, but it is, overall, not that bad for the site. It hurts my head to read some of the climbing posts...
JasonsDrivingForce wrote: wes_allen wrote: gmggg wrote: Here's the first tip: a new camera WILL NOT help you. For the 7D - looks interesting, esp. as a back up to mark III or to complement a 5dII, etc. I am probably going to wait for 1d4, and hope they up the MP a little bit and add HD video and maybe a nicer LCD. Or just pick up another 1dIII, as the 7d release should bring the used prices down a bit, maybe to the low 2k range even. What kind of MP are you looking for in the 1d4? 15+? 20+? 25+? Just curious about where you think the breaking point is. |
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dlintz
Sep 1, 2009, 5:26 AM
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http://www.dpreview.com/...090105canoneos7d.asp
All it's missing really is a bigger sensor to cram those 18MP onto....kinda like a cropped 5DII. As I said earlier I think I'll hold onto my baby for a little longer.
Pico (and gmggg),
It's all good if you're doing what makes you happy. Cragging is about all I get to do these days and it doesn't bother me a bit to split my day between climbing single pitch and shooting others climbing single pitch. If I was more motivated I might be toiling away, shooting pics on big walls but it's not my thing and never will be. To me I ain't missing a thing.
If a person wants the latest and greatest camera/doodad/gadget/widget then I say go for it. It's their money, wasted or not. I like hearing about the newest technology, it's interesting and fun....same goes for climbing gear, backpacking gear, computers, beer making, mountain bikes and a multitude of other things that interest me. What's not to like about discussing the tangibles?
d.
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pico23
Sep 1, 2009, 6:30 AM
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No insult was meant towards cragging at short multipitch walls. I've unfortunately spent most of my climbing life on routes shorter than 5 pitches.
It's just from a photographic perspective it doesn't do a lot for me...and worse it's largely what we see since it's easiest to shoot at 1-2 pitch crags, meaning most crappy shots are of subjects i really don't get inspired by.
I have seen some nice sport crag, short trad, and even bouldering shots, but few and far between. Oddly, I do enjoy almost any ice climbing shot whether it be big routes or 50ft ice flows, probably because we see so much less winter shots.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Sep 1, 2009, 6:34 AM
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That was awesome! Thanks for posting that.
Apparently, the 7D also supports 720p @ 60 FPS. Making it the first DSLR to support true 720p. The 7D is not perfect. However, for $1900 it sure looks pretty darn good.
18.0 Megapixel CMOS sensor
Dual DIGIC 4 processors
Supports all EF and EF-S lenses with a 1.6 focal length conversion ratio
Rugged magnesium alloy body has weather seals and a shutter rated to 150,000 cycles
3-inch LCD display with 920,000 pixels
Intelligent pentaprism viewfinder has 100% coverage, a magnification of 1.0X
An LCD is overlaid on top of the viewfinder to show AF points, composition grids, spot metering, electronic level, and the usual shooting info
New 19-point, all cross-type AF system
Supports AF point expansion (surrounding AF points used to track a moving subject) and Zone AF (divides all focus points into five selectable zones)
Intelligent Macro Tracking detects when a macro lens is attached and adjusts the AI Servo sampling frequency to compensate for forward/backward camera movement
New iFCL 63-zone dual layer metering system
Full manual controls
ISO range of 100 - 12,800 when fully expanded
Shutter speed range of 30 - 1/8000 sec, plus a bulb mode
Three RAW sizes to choose from
Continuous shooting at 8 frames/second (15 RAW, 126 JPEG with UDMA card)
Dual axis electronic level handles roll and pitch; data can be shown on LCD or viewfinder
Pop-up flash has built-in wireless flash transmitter; external flash supported via hot shoe or flash sync port
Dust reduction system
Records movies in Full HD (1920 x 1080) with sound, using H.264 codec
Frame rates at 1920 x 1080: 30p, 24p, 25p; at 1280 x 720: 60p, 50p; at 640 x 480: 60p, 50p
Exposure and focus can be manually adjusted
Dedicated movie recording button
Stereo mic input
CompactFlash Type I/II slot
HDMI output
Optional battery grip and wireless file transmitter (see below)
Uses LP-E6 li-ion battery; 800 shots per charge
Ships in late September for $1699 body only, or $1899 with the F3.5-5.6, 28 - 135 mm IS lens
http://www.dpreview.com/...canoneos7d.asp#press
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dlintz
Sep 1, 2009, 12:35 PM
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pico23 wrote: ...It's just from a photographic perspective it doesn't do a lot for me...and worse it's largely what we see since it's easiest to shoot at 1-2 pitch crags, meaning most crappy shots are of subjects i really don't get inspired by...
I hear ya, probably the same for 99.99% of the shots taken by soccer moms/dads weilding high end DSLRs.
This site does need more winter pics.
d.
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2009, 2:34 PM
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In reply to: While I mostly agree with you, and think that if you are a good photographer the gear is really largely irrelevant except for large prints and mission critical quality, I also look at this forum as a more a general photography forum for climbers. Lets face it, other than those having to justify why they dropped $4k on a camera, and why they are happy they did, almost any DSLR since 2003 can and will produce a saleable/publishable image. So really all the tech talk post 2003 is a waste of time on any forum. Until a camera can make me coffee and toast I say we ban talk of photo gear.
Awesome post! I am not a professional photographer by a looong shot (sounds like you might be) but my reasons for not taking a ton of climbing pictures are pretty similar. I think I will haul out some lights and ropes and do a good job once a year or so but there is certainly very little that you can do to dress up the average cragging day.
Tech talk can be fun, but tech talk about a $2000 dollar camera that many people wouldn't even be capable of using properly isn't too useful. The recent price drop and advertising blitz for DSLR's seems to have made everyone believe that they are necessary for "good" photographs. Your point about post 2003 DSLR's can be extended, I believe, to P&S as well for the average climber/camera owner.
I guess I would like to see some more questions on settings, useful gear posts (like the chalk bag post a few days ago), lenses, and maybe a revival of the photo critique threads. Those would be useful discussions.
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2009, 2:39 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: However, for $1900 it sure looks pretty darn good.
No. it doesn't.
Those Downfall subtitles never get old though!
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JasonsDrivingForce
Sep 1, 2009, 2:46 PM
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Damn, I have to hand it to you that was a well thought out and very useful post. We definitely could use some more talk about how to use all of the new equipment and old equipment for that matter.
I suggested to the creator of the video below that he post how he made this video. Hopefully, he will do that some time. I think it is a well made video with excellent quality.
http://www.youtube.com/...ture=player_embedded
There are also a lot of great pictures on this forum that I would love to know what lighting and settings were used. Maybe some of the pros here could help us out a bit on this?
gmggg wrote: Awesome post! I am not a professional photographer by a looong shot (sounds like you might be) but my reasons for not taking a ton of climbing pictures are pretty similar. I think I will haul out some lights and ropes and do a good job once a year or so but there is certainly very little that you can do to dress up the average cragging day. Tech talk can be fun, but tech talk about a $2000 dollar camera that many people wouldn't even be capable of using properly isn't too useful. The recent price drop and advertising blitz for DSLR's seems to have made everyone believe that they are necessary for "good" photographs. Your point about post 2003 DSLR's can be extended, I believe, to P&S as well for the average climber/camera owner. I guess I would like to see some more questions on settings, useful gear posts (like the chalk bag post a few days ago), lenses, and maybe a revival of the photo critique threads. Those would be useful discussions.
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Sep 1, 2009, 2:51 PM)
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JasonsDrivingForce
Sep 1, 2009, 2:49 PM
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gmggg wrote: JasonsDrivingForce wrote: However, for $1900 it sure looks pretty darn good. No. it doesn't. Those Downfall subtitles never get old though!
What doesn’t look good about it? Do you say that because you don’t think an APS-C camera is worth that much? I have been looking at some of the samples and it thoroughly trounces other APS-C cameras.
I guess if you don’t want video it would seem expensive. They tack on a lot for video even if it doesn’t cost them a lot more to produce.
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2009, 3:19 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: gmggg wrote: JasonsDrivingForce wrote: However, for $1900 it sure looks pretty darn good. No. it doesn't. Those Downfall subtitles never get old though! What doesn’t look good about it? Do you say that because you don’t think an APS-C camera is worth that much? I have been looking at some of the samples and it thoroughly trounces other APS-C cameras. I guess if you don’t want video it would seem expensive. They tack on a lot for video even if it doesn’t cost them a lot more to produce.
It doesn't look good because you are not a professional photographer, I am not a professional photographer, and the audience for your post is not made up of professional photographers. That camera is not useful for you. Would you buy a McLaren F1 for trips to the grocery store.
Here is a better way to spend your money:
First buy this or something similar: http://www.amazon.com/...003/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1
Then spend the remaining $1874.05 on 1-3 multi day climbing trips to fun locales. Take over 1000 pictures with the camera you have. Look through all of the pictures, edit some of them throw away most of them. Look through your edited pictures. Pay attention to what you edited and why. Repeat.
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