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unrest
Aug 25, 2009, 3:38 AM
Post #26 of 38
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fdel13 wrote: However you do it, post back with results sometime.
Well after reading here I went and bought a funeral plot, notified my next-o-kin and then headed to the crag. I'm happy to report I didn't die.
Since it was my first TR (which felt really strange) I found one that is completely bomber. I've got a massive dihedral that is about 10 feet across and overhung. It's a 5.10a to the left a 5.9 in back and a 5.10 b crack to the right. I chose to skip my 5.11 after the chat here because it only had 2 bolts and no bomber beyond that to anchor to just in case. Now that I've worked the system I'll be hitting it tomorrow to really get wrung out.
The climb I picked today I nearly died finding (yeah really) I went along the top of the crag looking for anchors with chains and a 3rd rap hanger further back for direct rap off the top (some parts of the crag are taller and fun to go up and rap off so people bolt them just for that purpose also for additional protection). I built a bomber using the rap hanger and another trad anchor in some really boss rock I mean strong stuff. attached the rope there and then brought the rest of it down and around the side into the dihedral where the chains where. I rigged an equalized TR anchor (pretty standard stuff) and dropped down my climb leg and my backup belay leg. It is a bolted route which is really nice and has an easy start.
I left the ground, got a good stance and tied in my first backup-belay and clipped it. Interestingly my backpack is the Osprey 50 just like the one in the article. Nice stuff. I'm going back tomorrow so I'll take pictures. The rest of the climb went without incident and I tied in the rest of the backup knots. I was able then to climb all 3 pitches with no trouble, break it down and get off the hill. Nifty stuff.
I cannot help it I like the SP more than the gri-gri a lot. I don't like having to tie knots under me. I can ascend then descend pretty easily and clipped on to the other knots means I can take as long or short of falls as I feel like.
Not a bad piece of kit at all. Until something better comes along I like it. The fact it'll catch both ways is nice. The fact it can TR and lead is nice.
I'm sold.
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healyje
Aug 25, 2009, 8:14 AM
Post #27 of 38
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Good for you for working something out, but neither the SP nor the Eddy are particularly good for TR soloing though you can certainly make either work. What you really probably want, though, is a 10.5 rope and two Minitraxions - search on supertopo.com for it (and skip the backup rope) - or just use an unmodified grigri. I've been lead roped soloing for 50% of my climbing for decades and you can see what I use here and the backpack mods I use here.
(This post was edited by healyje on Aug 25, 2009, 8:16 AM)
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adatesman
Aug 25, 2009, 4:00 PM
Post #28 of 38
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the_climber
Aug 25, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #29 of 38
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adatesman wrote: Also +1 on Healyje's lead solo system. He's got it pretty well sorted out and it's worth taking a look at.
+2 on his lead system. After taking a look at his article and a series of PM's I tried out the Eddy them began refining my system, only to end up with a very similar (almost the same) set up. Except I had the Portacord pack first... After seeing his mods to the pack I'm seriously thinking about making the same mods after I get back from Squamish.
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codhands
Aug 25, 2009, 4:47 PM
Post #30 of 38
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I prefer the double figure eight for the top and alpine butterflies on the backup strand. I usually will set up my anchor and rap down one strand and tie the butterflies only before the cruxy parts in the backup strand.
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majid_sabet
Aug 25, 2009, 5:04 PM
Post #32 of 38
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unrest wrote: I think I saw some threads here where a figure 8 can untie itself. I did a search on it and that was one of the results. The conditions were very unusual but it can happen. The butterfly ties every bit as fast and is specifically prescribed for pulls at both ends. In glacier traverses with 3 partners the middle guy ties in with a butterfly not an 8 and I figured there must be a good reason for that. Knowing the middle guy uses a butterfly and that my bomber anchor will be my "middle guy" I thought the butterfly might be the best choice. But you are right an 8 should do the trick too I just wanted to hear from anyone who's actually done this and what they suggest.
you got the link to this discovery ?
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healyje
Aug 25, 2009, 5:32 PM
Post #33 of 38
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dynosore wrote: I've used a grigri, 8 in the middle, and tie butterflies on the backup side. I've wondered if you use a clove for the middle knot, would it slip some and act as a dynamic belay? Someone else needs to try this and report back 
A note that in roped soloing of any type you want to really pay attention to and match the diameter and 'stiffness' of the rope to the device fairly closely - millimeters count, particularly for grigris, eddy's, and any device without teeth. You want that relationship fine-tuned so that the device actuates quickly in a fall, but isn't locking up all the time while climbing.
(This post was edited by healyje on Aug 25, 2009, 5:33 PM)
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unrest
Aug 25, 2009, 11:17 PM
Post #34 of 38
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Search for it. It involved cracklover and someone else I don't recall. Doesn't matter really. It was explained here in this thread and discarded so it's moot.
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unrest
Aug 25, 2009, 11:19 PM
Post #35 of 38
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Yeah I found some things today that I don't like about this device for TR but it's not a show stopper really just a technique.
I'll check out your suggestions sounds pretty cool.
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unrest
Aug 27, 2009, 4:29 PM
Post #36 of 38
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I'm pretty sold on this though I'm using it very differently than the directions. I've got it tuned now to where I feel it's even better than a partner as I don't have to belay the SP.
It took me 3 full days of screwing around on an easy 5.8 pitch with jugs so big I could set bowls of food on them. (That part was kind of fun.)
I think it's essential no matter what you do that you don't just go out and climb on any device/system without really figuring it out.
I spent about 4 hours each day just rigging the system and then screwing around (about 10 feet off the ground with a boulder pad under me) I went through many scenarios and what if's. I even swung the rope over to another climb clipped it on an overhang to see what it would be like to be stuck in mid-air away from the wall (a few feet off the ground). I did the prussik thing. I did the bounce/release thing and just had to learn it as I went.
It's essential that when you start climbing you get on a safe climb and rig up some fall-tests. I spent a lot of time falling with multiple backups in place. I had two ropes tied with a butterfly at the top and an 8 at the top and I screwed around endlessly. In the end I'm very satisfied.
Fun stuff. Very fun stuff. I don't have any of the taboo advice for anyone. I think be careful and if you are dumb enough to get killed then so be it. That's on your head for being dumb. Otherwise have fun.
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sogetthis
Sep 9, 2009, 9:40 PM
Post #37 of 38
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Registered: Sep 5, 2009
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unrest wrote: I'm pretty sold on this though I'm using it very differently than the directions. I've got it tuned now to where I feel it's even better than a partner as I don't have to belay the SP. It took me 3 full days of screwing around on an easy 5.8 pitch with jugs so big I could set bowls of food on them. (That part was kind of fun.) I think it's essential no matter what you do that you don't just go out and climb on any device/system without really figuring it out. I spent about 4 hours each day just rigging the system and then screwing around (about 10 feet off the ground with a boulder pad under me) I went through many scenarios and what if's. I even swung the rope over to another climb clipped it on an overhang to see what it would be like to be stuck in mid-air away from the wall (a few feet off the ground). I did the prussik thing. I did the bounce/release thing and just had to learn it as I went. It's essential that when you start climbing you get on a safe climb and rig up some fall-tests. I spent a lot of time falling with multiple backups in place. I had two ropes tied with a butterfly at the top and an 8 at the top and I screwed around endlessly. In the end I'm very satisfied. Fun stuff. Very fun stuff. I don't have any of the taboo advice for anyone. I think be careful and if you are dumb enough to get killed then so be it. That's on your head for being dumb. Otherwise have fun.
haha I'm very like minded with the above.
I think I need to play around with my SP some more for TR I guess. I tried it the other day and hated it drag was horrible.
I still prefer the grigri for TR solo instead, drag isn't bad at all feels like lead climbing with just a hair of drag on the rope.
Any tips you'd care to share on getting it smooth feeding for TR, since you seeem so pleased with it? Most people are not happy with the SP for TR.
I was using a 10.2 mm dry rope in good shape. I've experimented with different weights and amounts of slack on the line couldn't find a combo to let it feed smooth enough for me to be happy with it.
No major complaints with the SP for lead climbing, nor feed issues.
thanks
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knudenoggin
Sep 12, 2009, 5:55 AM
Post #38 of 38
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Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 596
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To answer the OP re knots:
1) the Bowline on a Bight is one simple answer for the top knot;
NB: this knot must be loaded on both eyes -- loading only one
eye and one end (one that doesn't feed into the eye)
will see slippage, heat, ... melting!?
2) Similarly, the Fig.8 works, but can be harder to untie.
3) And there are a zillion others. I'll recommend the Karash knot,
which is a bit stronger & more secure than the BoaB, and easily untied
Cf http://www.karashknot.com/7.html
Theoretically, the Karash should be vulnerable to slippage in the case
of only-one-eye-&-opposite-end-loaded, but seems much less so.
4) Given the possiblity of both ends of your top knot being loaded
(together), I'd avoid the Butterfly there.
5) You can also form a twin-eye bowline by just tying the regular knot
with doubled rope, which will put 4 diameters for the ends to bend
around vs. the 2 of the BoaB; this is sometimes called a "Triple Bowline"
because the end, being a bight, can make a 3rd eye. Rather, leave
this short but pull the other two eye through it for a sure lock.
Cf. http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2BJlsi
6) Here's a much easier to UNtie twin-eye Fig.8 (but to achieve the
particular orientation of parts, trickier to tie right -- practice, ...).
cf http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2M0G7A
(bottom two knots; top one is that Bowline in doubled rope, with one
eye (of three) collapsed (highlighted w/black cord))
7) The quickest/simplest mid-line-tied attachment knot is probably
the Simple (Overhand) noose (Slip-knot, slipping end up/loaded),
but you want to be sure to set that well (snug up the Overhand).
It can be quickly tied one-handedly.
But, yeah, I'd like to see some drop tests of this.
*kN*
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