Forums: Climbing Information: Regional Discussions:
A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Regional Discussions

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


thomasribiere


Sep 6, 2009, 3:10 AM
Post #1 of 34 (7188 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG  (North_America: United_States: Kentucky: East: Red_River_Gorge__Climbing_)
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hi folks,

I'll be there from Sep 27 to Oct 16 to sport climb.

1/
In reply to:
If you are into exposure then you will definitely fall in love with the climbing here.
Just read that in the RRG intro of the site. Any more hints? Height of the first bolt? Distance between bolts? I'm not fond of high distance between bolts... Wink

2/ How easy to meet people during the week? I'll be alone.

3/ For the first 3-4 days, I'll probably start with local 5.7-5.10a sport climbs to get used to the local style. More appropriate crags?

4/ Is there safes (saves?) in any of the campgrounds? I'll travel with the passport, the plane tickets, and so on... I don't think that leaving all that stuff in the tent is a good idea...

5/ Any idea of the night temperatures (approx. range) during the first 15 days of October?

6/ Closest outdoor / climbing shop in RRG? And is it open on Sundays?
6bis/ Or any REI open on Sundays near Cincinnati Int Airport?

Thank you for your answers.


Ry_


Sep 6, 2009, 9:06 PM
Post #2 of 34 (7128 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 17, 2009
Posts: 27

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

As far as the passport/plane tickets. I ziploc them and put it in an outside pocket of my chalkbag. Waterproof, 5 extra grams not a big deal. But then again im kinda paranoid about keeping my passport on me.
have fun on the trip


Basta916


Sep 7, 2009, 10:26 AM
Post #3 of 34 (7105 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 310

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

thomasribiere wrote:
Hi folks,

I'll be there from Sep 27 to Oct 16 to sport climb.

1/
In reply to:
If you are into exposure then you will definitely fall in love with the climbing here.
Just read that in the RRG intro of the site. Any more hints? Height of the first bolt? Distance between bolts? I'm not fond of high distance between bolts... Wink

2/ How easy to meet people during the week? I'll be alone.

3/ For the first 3-4 days, I'll probably start with local 5.7-5.10a sport climbs to get used to the local style. More appropriate crags?

4/ Is there safes (saves?) in any of the campgrounds? I'll travel with the passport, the plane tickets, and so on... I don't think that leaving all that stuff in the tent is a good idea...

5/ Any idea of the night temperatures (approx. range) during the first 15 days of October?

6/ Closest outdoor / climbing shop in RRG? And is it open on Sundays?
6bis/ Or any REI open on Sundays near Cincinnati Int Airport?

Thank you for your answers.

Hi Thomas,
I'm not local to RRG, but maybe I can answer some.

1) Exposure is relative, I wouldn't say you should expect it, but you can find it ( "No place like home" "Amarillo Sunset" come to mind)
2) Bolt distance in general is average for US ( bit more than in Europe) Popular places with high first bolts have plenty of sticks around...
3)If you stay at Miguel's, or hang around that place, partners aren't to hard to find ( I would be surprised if you are the only French Climber there during your stay)
appropriate crag? any place will do, but stay away from popular crags on weekends, they get crazy. Good places to start, Phantasia, Military, Left Flank... and many more...
4) there used to be Lockers at Miguel's, but I'm not sure if they are still there ( they were/are remodeling )
5) shouldn't worry about Temperatures till mid November
6) Cincinnati airport is in KY ( south of CIN), so your best bet is to go to Lexington and look for a sporting store ( Look online for REI, they are all open on sunday) , I don't know what you need , but simple climbing stuff ( shoes, ropes, gear) you can get at Miguel's..

Good luck...


thomasribiere


Sep 7, 2009, 11:02 AM
Post #4 of 34 (7099 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [Basta916] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

thank you for these answers.


wes_allen


Sep 7, 2009, 11:48 AM
Post #5 of 34 (7090 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 549

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Not really much in the way of exposure, unless you are from Ohio. Most route end before the top of the cliff, and many don't even clear the tree line. There are a couple sport routes and trad lines that give you a little taste, but really not that much, esp. if you are used to areas with big exposure.

Bolt spacing on the older routes can be a bit intimidating at first, be ready for 25+ foot falls, I have taken many 60+ footers. But usually it is all air. Muir and some of the newer routes in Sore Heal are bolted a bit closer. Many routes have a high first bolt, so a stick clip is a good idea.

Should be lot's of people around at that time, stay at Migueles, and you should be fine. Just be ready to go where others want to go, at least at first.


Roadside has some good moderates, the 10 wall there is a great intro to RRG style pockets. Left flank, sore heal, etc. are all good. Muir has a ton of moderates.

Don't know if the lockers are still there, but you might just keep really important stuff with you.

Miguel's has a pretty good stock of climbing gear and some camping stuff. Philp galls in Lexington has a full selection. The gear shops in Cinci )benchmark is also good, but not on the way to the red form the airport.

You can never guess at temps - we have been having a very cool and wet summer. Expect anything from low 30's at night (miguels is colder then the crags) to 70's during the day.


You will be here during Rocktoberfest, so it will be way crowded around then, but lots of great things happening as well.

Hope you have a good trip, and drop me a line when you get here - probably still living at Torrent then.

thomasribiere wrote:
Hi folks,

I'll be there from Sep 27 to Oct 16 to sport climb.

1/
In reply to:
If you are into exposure then you will definitely fall in love with the climbing here.
Just read that in the RRG intro of the site. Any more hints? Height of the first bolt? Distance between bolts? I'm not fond of high distance between bolts... Wink

2/ How easy to meet people during the week? I'll be alone.

3/ For the first 3-4 days, I'll probably start with local 5.7-5.10a sport climbs to get used to the local style. More appropriate crags?

4/ Is there safes (saves?) in any of the campgrounds? I'll travel with the passport, the plane tickets, and so on... I don't think that leaving all that stuff in the tent is a good idea...

5/ Any idea of the night temperatures (approx. range) during the first 15 days of October?

6/ Closest outdoor / climbing shop in RRG? And is it open on Sundays?
6bis/ Or any REI open on Sundays near Cincinnati Int Airport?

Thank you for your answers.


granite_grrl


Sep 8, 2009, 5:28 AM
Post #6 of 34 (7050 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14812

Re: [wes_allen] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey Thomas, with the stretch of time that you're heading down you should try to meet some RC.commers while you're at it. Nathan (chossmonkey) and I will be down the week before Canadian Thanksgiving (Oct 3-12). We usually get to see clausti, camhead and lene_chita while we'm down there too. Nathan and I usually stay at Miguels, but that's not guaranteed.

The campground at Miguel's is pretty safe, at least I've never heard of anyone digging through tents. I would rather leave my valuables in the tent than in the car (in the past there has been breakins reported). But the easiest solution is to stick your passport in pack or jacket pocket and take it with you when you're climbing (this is normally what I do with my passport).

The areas that Wes has suggested are good for easier climbs, but I wouldn't be too worried about the routes. In general the rock (and the chalk...) is easy to read, it shouldn't take long to get used to it. But often I like to start a trip down in the Muir. There are many feelgood, fairly soft routes down there. Grand Wall in the Muir is a nice place to start out at.

The guide book is excellent. Pick it up once you get there. Easy to pick out areas with good sport climbing in the grades that you're interested in.

As for gear, if there are specific things that you're looking for, you might consider buying some stuff online and having it delivered to someone who will meet you down there. I can even offer you a chance to look at Mountain Equipment Coop in Canada and we can haul a few things down for you (note: we have out own border crossing to deal with so I would refuse to bring down too much).


thomasribiere


Sep 8, 2009, 11:33 AM
Post #7 of 34 (7015 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [granite_grrl] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Great! I'll be very glad to meet you there! I should already meet paul and christina! And why not Wes as well. I need good climbing pics of me... Wink
I already ordered the guide book, I should get it soon.

Stay in tune!


lena_chita
Moderator

Sep 9, 2009, 1:16 PM
Post #8 of 34 (6965 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5717

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yes, I'll definitely be at the Red several times during that time period--definitely the weekend of September 26-28, Saturday through Monday. I'll be up for some easier climbing on Monday and probably looking for people to climb with. PM me if you want to try and find each other.


I feel like your questions have mostly been answered by Wes and granite_grrl.

The lockers at Miguel's are gone. Theft hadn't been an issue at the campground, as far as I know -- I would rather leave a laptop at the campground than in my car parked at the crag b/c some break-ins do happen. I haven't heard of any this year, but I do remember some last year... But for small important items like passport, vallet, etc., I think your best bet is to keep it in your backpack.

The weather in this time frame is usually very nice. Daytime tems of 15-20C. Nighttime temps will probably be in the 10C-15C, but might go down to ~7C-8C, so definitely plan to bring some warmer clothes.


thomasribiere


Sep 11, 2009, 9:49 AM
Post #9 of 34 (6895 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [lena_chita] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Another question : I guess there's a river going through RRG. Maybe it's even redish...
Is there anyway to bath / swim in it? Water temperature in October?


lena_chita
Moderator

Sep 11, 2009, 10:27 AM
Post #10 of 34 (6887 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5717

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Umm, the river is more like a wading creek. There are places where it is deeper, but I can't think of any spots that are readily accessible for bathing.

There is a reservoir not too far from Miguel's right by the road that is a popular swimming place. I personally always felt more dirty just thinking of swimming in there, than I felt before the idea came into my mind. On summer weekends it gets pretty crowded in there. October also doesn't seem like the best month to go swimming in it. But if that's your thing, then it is there...

I guess what I am saying is that if I wanted to save money on showers, I would rather go without showers for a few days than choose the above options.


cavemanNdisguise


Sep 11, 2009, 10:28 AM
Post #11 of 34 (6884 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2008
Posts: 24

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

There is a river in the Red River Gorge! You can find plenty of spots to swim. If you just want to soak your feet you can find that anywhere in the Red River as well as numerous streams nearby. One can also find some deeper "swimming holes" with 15-20ft rocks to jump off of, but most of these areas have become heavily impacted by out-of-stater's and locals alike. You're likely to find trash abounding and even toilet paper or worse. So, if you're planning on visiting one of these areas, do your part and bring a trash bag to fill on your hike out. Don't let this discourage you from going to these areas because they can be a lot of fun and very rejuvenating after a afternoon of climbing. Just be aware that the Red is no longer the pristine wilderness that it once was and becoming aware of the problem is the first step to educating people and making changes where necessary. I would avoid bathing in the river/streams if possible only because of water quality issues with soap/shampoo. You'll find that the water temperatures are usually pretty nice this time of year, but do vary considerably with rain. The air temperatures are starting to drop off and by October it may feel pretty cool especially after getting out of the water. However, if you find a warm day during your stay, you should be able to swim without developing hypothermia :). Enjoy your time here in the Red as I know you will!


thomasribiere


Sep 11, 2009, 11:02 AM
Post #12 of 34 (6875 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [cavemanNdisguise] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

OK... Unsure


jrathfon


Sep 11, 2009, 11:32 AM
Post #13 of 34 (6863 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

welp it was a touch cold, but definitely swimmable and refreshing this past weekend, but the air temp was 80, if you are from new england, early october would feel fine for bathing, not a casual dip though. it's sort of a creek anyways, there are definitely some holes, but it's mostly shallow. there are many little water falls around, so you could probably find a good one for a shower. showers at miguel's are $2-3 can't remember, and showers are included at a few of the other campgrounds.


thomasribiere


Sep 25, 2009, 6:18 AM
Post #14 of 34 (6729 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [jrathfon] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Another question : edible mushrooms (yes, not the other ones).

RRG is in the forest, is it mushrooms time already? Is it allowed to pick up mushrooms? Is there some chanterelles or black trumpets?

Smile


camhead


Sep 25, 2009, 7:05 AM
Post #15 of 34 (6712 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 9, 2001
Posts: 20754

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

thomasribiere wrote:
Another question : edible mushrooms (yes, not the other ones).

RRG is in the forest, is it mushrooms time already? Is it allowed to pick up mushrooms? Is there some chanterelles or black trumpets?

Smile

Ask Lena about the mushrooms, she knows them pretty well, although I don't think that we have been brave enough to try any yet. The RRG is a forest, and VERY damp and humid, so shrooms should come out after a heavy rainstorm.


johnwesely


Sep 25, 2009, 7:35 AM
Post #16 of 34 (6699 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I stayed at Miguel's for a month last summer. I kept everything including my laptop in my tent. If you go to the pull off for Tower Rock. There is also a pretty good swimming hole that is pretty good for bathing. Muir valley would be a really good place to go first if you want to get used to it. The grades are soft and the bolts are super close. I would recommend going to the Bruisbrothers Wall. There are some easier routes 5.7-5.9 and some tens that are really fun, pretty tall, and not very hard. Have fun.


lena_chita
Moderator

Sep 25, 2009, 8:28 AM
Post #17 of 34 (6678 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5717

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have not seen black trumpets at the Red, but I have not been looking specifically. Chanterelles I have seen occasionally... Most of the edible mushrooms that I've seen here (that I recognize, anyway) are various boletus species. (I think it is called cep in french?). There are some more that i don't know an English name for.

You would find that most people here are deadly afraid of mushrooms.


thomasribiere


Sep 25, 2009, 8:59 AM
Post #18 of 34 (6669 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [lena_chita] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
various boletus species. (I think it is called cep in french?). There are some more that i don't know an English name for.

You would find that most people here are deadly afraid of mushrooms.
Great! They will all be for us!


MS1


Sep 25, 2009, 9:23 AM
Post #19 of 34 (6661 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 560

Re: [johnwesely] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

BB in muir is definitely worth a visit, especially for the taller 9s and 10s, but go on a weekday or early in the morning. Otherwise, expect to wait in line.


ddclimbs


Sep 25, 2009, 12:09 PM
Post #20 of 34 (6645 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 11

Re: [MS1] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Miguel's is definitely the place to meet other climbers and cheap camping. Lago Linda's has a beautiful lake where you can swim. Not sure that Linda is OK with bathing in the lake, but she doesn't charge extra for showers. Here's the link to her website: http://lagolinda.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/. Linda is from England and a lot of European climbers like to stay there.

Also, Rocktoberfest is Oct. 9-11. Check out redriverclimbing.com for details or check this website for the posting by captainstatic. Me and the hubby will be there for Rocktoberfest and staying at Lago Linda's.

You can also view the guidebook online at redriverclimbing.com. There have been a lot of new routes that have been put up since the printing of the current version of the guide. The online guide has the most recent routes. I hear that a new edition of the guide will be coming out sometime in the future.

Have a safe trip and perhaps we will meet at Rocktoberfest.


bigjonnyc


Sep 25, 2009, 12:50 PM
Post #21 of 34 (6630 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 366

Re: [ddclimbs] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ddclimbs wrote:
You can also view the guidebook online at redriverclimbing.com. There have been a lot of new routes that have been put up since the printing of the current version of the guide. The online guide has the most recent routes. I hear that a new edition of the guide will be coming out sometime in the future.

Definitely check this site out. The guide is at http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuide/. You can download pdf's for every wall in the RRG. They are generated as you download them so they automatically contain the newest updates. This is essential for some of the newer walls in Muir Valley, and many of the walls in the Southern Region. All of the other areas will be up to date in the new guidebook. I believe you mentioned that you have already ordered the guidebook Thomas, so you'll be able to compare and see exactly what you may need. You're going to have a blast, I just spent 6 days down there last week, and I totally wish I was still there.


thomasribiere


Sep 25, 2009, 2:12 PM
Post #22 of 34 (6604 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [bigjonnyc] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thank you, I hadn't notice the updates pages... A bit late to print them, as my printer is OOO... Crazy


thomasribiere


Oct 25, 2009, 3:08 PM
Post #23 of 34 (6369 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hi,

I wanted to thank all the rc.comers I have climbed with and have fun with in the RRG. In order of appearance :

- lena chita : thank you for guiding me on my first day there with my injured elbow. It waas just too short. Sorry for the stop you made in Ohio to drop my jacket.

- dan brayack : you're a great photographer and video maker. And you have a huge stomach as well : how many times did you finish my pizza! Watch your cholesterol, dude! I myself gained 2 pounds while being there.
- wes allen and your lovely wife : I would have appreciated to see you more than a few minutes. Another time, maybe?
To Dan and Wes : please organise a postcard deal with Miguel Ventura, it sucks not to find a single rock climbing postcard to send oversea! I know, it's web era, but some people still like to get some postcards, and other like to write some! Even Miguel would like to have some postcards to sell.

- clausti : it was great to meet you, you are a funny and enthutiastic girl, it was nice to chat and laugh with you.
- camhead : you're crazy, seriously! And you really look like Jim Carey, especially when you yell like hell at the top of a route! It was nice to see you again after 4 years. Europe next time?

- blondgecko : thanks for checking my first trad route by climbing it after my lead. And sorry, I think that I called you Justin a couple of time...

- granite_grrl : you really impressed me! You climb so calmly, a real rock warrior. I was looking at some pics this afternoon, your face si almost always relaxed, not like mine.
- chossmonkey : I think I really have some problems understanding your accent! I missed all your jokes! I hate that! Blame Canada... To both of you, thank you for your great advice on the RRG. I onsighted Breakfast Burrito, by the way. Drive-by crag was nice, but busy. Hopefully, we were the first to be there on the Monday you left.

- caughtinside : you are a nice and dynamic climbing partner, I appreciated climbing and talking with you. We both discovered the RRG and I think that you liked it like I did. I have some pics for you, just be patient. I tried Ro Shampoo twice more the last Thursday, but couldn't redpoint it... Next time!

I hope I don't forget any other person.
It was not warm enough to swim, but the forest was full of mushrooms. I didn't find any mushroom I could identify as edible though, but there was surely some.


dr_feelgood


Oct 25, 2009, 3:16 PM
Post #24 of 34 (6354 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25828

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Have you considered that perhaps chossmonkey simply is not funny?


caughtinside


Oct 25, 2009, 3:19 PM
Post #25 of 34 (6348 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30418

Re: [thomasribiere] A few questions for 1rst trip in RRG [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hi Thomas!

Yes, really fun climbing with you as well, we did some fun routes at some rad walls!

I tried Ro Shampo two more times as well but never got it before I left.

Thanks for the catches, and sorry again we had to cut your rope, hah!

Cheers, looking forward to seeing some of the photos!

Dave

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Regional Discussions

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook