Any gymnasts on this thread or this site or anyone with knowledge related to that? I watch gymnasts with varying amounts of awe doing pommel horse, rings and the floor routine and think how applicable those movements are to climbing.

Does anyone know if gymnasts do any specific weight (strength) training? Even if they don't do weights, they definitely engage in strength training designed to improve their ability to perform difficult and complex movements that look applicable to climbing and gymnastics is definitely a gravity specific sport, much like climbing.

Gymnasts perform exercises where forearm and grip strength are paramount, yet also need good core strength etc. Wouldn't it seem reasonable to draw comparisons here? Wasn't Gill a former gymnast (meaning good gymnasts have the training to be very good climbers)?

Well, I'm aware that there's some evidence that neural tissue regenerates after certain brain traumas (like stroke, etc.), and the only other evidence I'm aware of is brain cell growth in the hippocampus, which, let's face it, won't help TerminalVelocity with his higher thought process deficits.

P.S. Fwiw, I read that the research methodology for measuring the age of nerve cells is extremely complicated, especially in man, and gives unreliable and controversial results.

Neurogenesis isn't limited to the hippocampus nor just as a result of trauma. That research was only tangentially related to mine, so I was never very up on it, but figuring out which types of exercise stimulated the most neurogenesis seemed to be a guaranteed high-level publication maybe ten years ago.

It is true that there were some ethical complications with getting a definitive answer in humans, but those were pretty well obviated by a group of people who were given BrDU as part of some sort of medical therapy. When they died and their brains could be sectioned and stained it pretty much put the issue to rest even for those last few who were holding out on the basis of human exceptionalism. I could dig up the paper for you if you're interested. I think it came out in Science in maybe 1997 or 1998.

Not a very compelling argument. "A" happened. Did "B". "A" didn't happen again. Therefore, lack of "B" caused "A".

Jay

That indirectly proves the point being made in this thread, no? That strength training is necessary to high performance in climbing-related activity. Or seems to be necessary.

Sorry that wasn't very scientific or a well-designed clinically robust double-blind study, but that's the best I can do on the interweb.

Any other gymnast types?

Don't get me wrong. Movement training dominates strength training in climbing. But strengthening is a non-zero factor.

I am six foot three and somewhere between 150 and 160 pounds and I do alright.

I don't think anyone would venture to say strength training worthless for climbing because that is asinine. The argument is weather training with weights will positively or negatively affect climbing ability.

I see your thought process is at an extremely high level, copying those readings takes years of analyzing and reasearch.

Wow. I thought I spelled out the limitations, being a case study and all, but it is at the minimum, plausible that strength training of hamstrings limits hamstring strains.

Lets examine your "A" and "B" a little...

A man has angina (A) He has a stent put in (B), now, he no longer has angina. Compelling, or not?

Wow. I thought I spelled out the limitations, being a case study and all, but it is at the minimum, plausible that strength training of hamstrings limits hamstring strains.


Lets examine your "A" and "B" a little...

A man has angina (A) He has a stent put in (B), now, he no longer has angina. Compelling, or not?

A climber continually fails on a difficult route (A). He reads and implements the ideas in Self Coached Climber (B). Then he sends the route. Compelling? Apparently not.

If you are not aware of research into strengthening to prevent injury of hamstrings in athletes, perhaps you should get caught up.

It's troubling that I find myself in agreement with JT, but on this issue, I don't think your angina analogy holds water.

The OP wants to "bulk up." He has implied that he wants to gain 4 lb, just in his chest, and wants to be "balanced." How much mass in his legs will he have to gain to "balance" the four pounds of chest mass? Conservatively, 8 lb? So that's 12 lb right there. Yes, that is going to hinder his climbing. Like someone else said, if he doesn't believe that, he should just try strapping the weight on now, and see how it goes.

Jay

I'm not looking to gain massive muscle or weight.

Yes, it's plausible. I've always attributed muscle strains to insufficient warming up.

Jay

I think the OP is overestimating how much effort it would take to gain 4 lbs of lean mass alone in his chest (and what this would look like); I doubt it will happen.

But regardless, since you don't know the current size of his legs, either, there is no way to estimate how much weight he would have to add there to be "balanced" (whatever that means, it's totally subjective and there's no way to measure it, especially ahead of the fact).

Not to mention, Jay, that it is ridiculous to compare strapping on weights outside your body as being the equivalent to moving with the same poundage of extra lean mass. The way the body functions in both cases is totally not the same. This analogy would be far more applicable to adding fat weight--which doesn't do much of anything.

Or unless you wanted to become a good rock climber.

Jay

Right there Jay.
Yes, I did say that I am well built because, I am.
Sorry to seem cocky on that one...

Right there Jay.
Yes, I did say that I am well built because, I am.
Sorry to seem cocky on that one, I really am not cocky, but I am not going to say I am a lard ass, now am I.
Terminal...its about 260 because I rarely max out, but when I am doing heavy weight days I do 3 sets of 4 reps with 235#s, so I would think that 260 is conservative.
Cross fit is also the bomb, so is anything that gets you strong. Why do people think that their way is the best way, being fit is my key to a good healthy life. Any way you go about it is great, I love to see people taking care of their bodies.
Also Jay, one of the keys to putting on chest size is working the shoulders. Shoulders are very prone to injury when you get to the higher grades, think overhanging gastons. I say keep your flexibility in them, but pack on as much muscle around them as you can. 4 pounds of muscle is not dead weight, so its not like strapping iron around your waist, do you really believe that, or are you just spouting random BS?
6'3" and 160 is fine if it works for you, I am not built that way. I think its all great, we are all different people here. What works for some doesnt for others, I am going to hit the gym now.

So, then, if you use an iron weight, or a resistance band, to provide load to a specific muscle in a specific direction, that will somehow have a negative effect, but if you use body weight to load the same muscle in the same direction, that will have a postive effect? Is that really the argument?

I'm not exactly sure what kind of "shoulder" injury you are referring to, but at least as far as I know a strong "chest" isn't really going to help. Especially in gaston type moves. Now, I just want to clarify that when people mention "strengthening your chest" they seem to mean "pecs", so that's what I'm working with here.

I would think that other muscle groups (like the rotator cuff muscles- and yes, I know one of them IS in your chest.....) would be more appropriate for staving off shoulder problems while climbing.

All that said, I don't know for sure. Think of this as a legitimate question in the form of a statement rather than me picking a fight. "Cause it really is just that. Maybe OAH or aerilli can help on this one.


And speaking of aerilli- I can't help but be anal retentive here....BUT neurons and brain cells are most DEFINITELY not the same thing. While the question of can we regrow/grow neurons during our life may or may not be a sticky subject, there is NO doubt that we do grow brain cells during our life. Don't forget the VAST majority of cells in our brain are glial cells, which have clear stem cell populations and have been pretty clearly demonstrated to repopulate our brains with new cells. True, these aren't neurons, but also true is you didn't specify....

Weight gained by bench pressing and squats isn't going be terribly useful for climbing. Strapping on weights is a good first approximation.