well, subscapularis is just deep to pectoralis major, eh? though due to how deep it is i suppose back is a better description....

Do you have any supporting evidence, or, as usual, should we just believe you because you report to climb 2 1/2 number grades below world-class?

Sorry. That study hasn't been done. Just have to rely on logic and experience.

Jay

Does anyone know if gymnasts do any specific weight (strength) training?

Wasn't Gill a former gymnast (meaning good gymnasts have the training to be very good climbers)?

Weight gained by bench pressing and squats isn't going be terribly useful for climbing. Strapping on weights is a good first approximation.

Lisa Rands and Lynn Hill were also gymnasts as children, so there may be something to your conclusion despite the folks on this site who say that training for other sports is sports-specific and doesn't apply to climbing.

I think thats what we are all waiting on, Jay, is for you to rely on logic.

I think thats what we are all waiting on, Jay, is for you to rely on logic.

Sure. It's completely logical to believe that squats and push-ups are important ingredients for climbing hard. Let's not forget swimming, and all the other "logical" exercises that have climbers on this site swear by.

Jay

C'mon, Jay, we all know that underwater basket weaving helps with finger strength and dexterity for climbing!

Anyone on here who thinks JT's question about how hard the other guy climbed was for a "benchmark" feel free to post up.

Sure. It's completely logical to believe that squats and push-ups are important ingredients for climbing hard. Let's not forget swimming, and all the other "logical" exercises that have climbers on this site swear by.

Jay

Why do you think there are no other exercises that are good for climbing. I really do not understand. Do you think pro athletes only practice their sport exactly? Think sprinters, is all those guys do is sprint? No way, what good does a strong upper body do them?

What is it Jay that makes you the athourity on this? is it your mediocre ability? I am pretty sure the people educated in this are going against you. Is it how long you have been climbing?

Why not admit that yes, it might help others? Hell it might help you, have you tried it? whats your background in lifting, Jay. How about swimming, ever tried it? it might push your onsight grade up. you never know untill you try, or are you OK with being mediocre?

And who said anything about "huge legs" we are talking lifting wieghts....NOT body building. what a bunch of idiots on here

The OP is clearly talking about bodybuilding. He has already talked about gaining four pounds, just in his chest!

Jay

Sorry, can't take that bait: just do a search for JT's posts on the importance of a control group.

I don’t often talk much about my own training on this blog, but in my ongoing long term experiments on myself I’ve seen a really interesting trend this year.

I’ve always held the view that having a low body weight was really important for hard climbing, especially sport climbing. It used to be in fashion but then seemed to go out of fashion for a long while, perhaps because people were going about dieting the wrong way and ending up weak and unhappy! But I reckon being light should come more back into fashion again among anyone who wants to link more than a few moves on steep ground close to their limit.

My evidence? In the past 10 months I’ve been able to increase my grade from 8c to 9a. That’s a very quick progression at this end of the grading scale, especially for someone not so young these days. How did I do it? I lost 4.5 kgs.

Yes, it really was that simple.

Now, I should qualify that by saying the effect would not have happened had it not been for all other aspects of my training, tactics and approach being relatively close to optimal and my strategy for managing the weight loss very well thought through and researched. The dynamics of who would benefit from this type of adaptation, why and how and when to go about it is something I’ll be writing at length about (probably in a book quite soon).

But the basic message is clear – being light is pretty damn important for hard climbing.

If you feel otherwise, please comment below and I will argue you round!

My undergraduate research project investigating determinants of finger endurance in trained climbers was recently published in the Journal of Sport Sciences. You can see the details here or access the full paper if you have access to the scientific journals through an academic or other institution. A huge thanks to Stan Grant for encouraging me to keep going with the log preparation of the manuscript for submission and to everyone that worked with me on the paper and volunteered for the research itself.

We observed that climbers were not dramatically better at tolerating occlusive isometric contractions of the finger flexors (as you get in difficult climbing), but were surprisingly good at sustaining long periods of intermittent high force isometric contractions compared to untrained people. This could be down to an ability to perfuse the muscles very rapidly and recover from the contractions while reaching for the next hold. Not surprisingly, we also observed yet another confirmation that pure finger strength, and especially finger strength to weight ratio was a strong predictor of climbing level.

The intermittent isometric muscle contractions of our fingers in climbing are not that common in strength and endurance dependent sports, and there is still much to be learned about the exact causes of failure to maintain force output and sequence of chemical events that happen deep in the exercising muscle during fatigue.

Big up to anyone out there willing to take up this mantle and help us to learn more about the physiological limitations in climbing. The continued dramatic rises in the level of ability of the worlds top climbers really shows that we are nowhere yet, either with our understanding, or what could be done with it.

Layoff vs slow return to activity
One of the main worries climbers have after getting an injury is whether to take a complete layoff from climbing activity and how long that layoff should be. Some reading about rehab in sport will tell you that extended layoffs are very bad news not only for losing form but also recovering from the injury. Here is quote from a review of strength training in sports rehab which really rams home the point:
"it is now clear that during the remodeling phase, occurring theoretically from the 21st day after injury and even lasting 300 to 500 days, the collagen tissue remodeling can only take place efficiently when put under stress (or load)."
The initial layoff (up to three weeks) allows the acute phase of the injury to pass (that is inflammation causing swelling, tenderness and lots of nasty chemicals in the wound). Beyond that, it takes training for the injury to respond with improvements in exactly the same way as normal training, except of course that it is starting from a very low load capability. What has to be remembered is that sporting function is not normal function. If you layoff for a long period, an injury will recover to the point it can handle what is being asked of it (i.e. lifting kettles, tapping keyboards in some people's case!). You would'nt stop climbing for six months and then jump back on your hardest grade would you? So if you have an injury where the capability of the damaged tissue drops to a very low level, you shouldn't let it languish at that level and then expect it to suddenly perform a massive jump in standard by starting normal climbing again.
The bottom line is, rehab from injury is (beyond the initial phase) analogous to normal training, with progressive overload to stimulate the tissue to respond. All the aspects of normal training also apply; monitoring of progress, regular and stuctured exercises, careful lifestyle support (which in this case will include rehab treatments like Lewis reaction icing, stretching and maybe friction massage).

Hey Guy,
One person does not a "control group" make. Jay's point was to belittle the poster for his climbing ability...