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unrest
Sep 24, 2009, 8:15 PM
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Anyone found a gear sling they really like? A while back I shared a picture of most of my gear and I guess I have a lot. I have 2 Metolius gear slings and honestly I hate them. If you load them up it turns into a cluster. If you run them light they are okay but by that point just put it all on your harness.
I was asked if I ever climbed with all my gear so I racked it all and put it on. No way in hell could I climb with that on. Well I could be would I want to? No.
What if you needed to though? Anyone found a really good harness that let's you spread your gear out and yet still let's you move around?
I googled a lot and kept coming back to the same results. I'll probably have to build my own to get something I really like.
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suprasoup
Sep 24, 2009, 9:29 PM
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Big fan of the Wild Country Synchro Elite. 7 gear loops. front rear haul loops. an ice screw attachment point. and Uber comfy. I can carry all my cams on this bad boy.
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cracklover
Sep 24, 2009, 9:51 PM
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How much gear are you talking about? I climb with a gear sling, dunno what kind, and I don't think it matters for the amount of gear I rack.
But when I'm climbing with a full-on aid rack (because I'm aid climbing), I use a Misty Mountain double gear sling. You'd be justifiably laughed at if you wore one for trad climbing, but I guess if you want to carry that much gear, it would honestly be the cleanest and most comfortable way to go.
GO
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seatbeltpants
Sep 24, 2009, 10:15 PM
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i use a metolius waldo for trad - i can just fit on my rack plus a few additional pieces i nick off my partner. it's tight, not much room for anything else, but it works. the few times i've tried a sling it's been a pain in the arse, but it may have been a shit sling and i never persevered to figure out a good way of doing it...
steve
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bennydh
Sep 25, 2009, 12:20 AM
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suprasoup wrote: Big fan of the Wild Country Synchro Elite. 7 gear loops. front rear haul loops. an ice screw attachment point. and Uber comfy. I can carry all my cams on this bad boy.
+1
This is a great harness. Plenty of space/loops. strength rated accessory hitches, so you can drag heavy shit or just trail a line with confidence. Pretty damn comfy too.
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jsj7051
Sep 25, 2009, 1:20 AM
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Metolius makes a double gear sling w/ a small pouch in the back, I've thought about trying it . Misty Mnt. will make anything you want just contact them.
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moose_droppings
Sep 25, 2009, 1:31 AM
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Try splitting your gear up, some on your harness, some on your gear sling. Maybe pro on the sling, everything else on the harness. I never liked carrying everything on the gear sling either so when I climbed with one, I'd split up the gear between the two. Its a little more time consuming when swapping gear, but no more than if you rack all on your harness.
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 4:21 PM
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cracklover wrote: How much gear are you talking about?... I use a Misty Mountain double gear sling. You'd be justifiably laughed at if you wore one for trad climbing... GO
Gabe read this whole thing. Sounds like I'm yarding on you but I don't mean too. Not at all. I'm just rambling about generalities that stemmed from quoting your predicted reaction from the climbing zealots.
So funny and sad. I was just talking with another member here about what climbing really is. Elitist? Smug? Absolute? Rigid?
If people want to laugh let them. It'll make them feel hollow someday.
My question stems from wanting to have -ALL- of it on and to spend hours and hours placing it, removing it, falling on it, repeat, repeat. Of course it would be nice if while doing this it wasn't a massive cluster. I suppose I could just rack up a few pieces here and there and reload/rerack when I need to.
I think that climbers take the wrong shit way too seriously.
- Knots? : Yeah take that serious.
- Belaying? : Yeah take that serious.
- Racking? : Who gives a shit if you want to haul it and can climb with all of that on you can.
- Safety? : Yeah very serious.
- Children at Crag? : Debateable but not serious.
We are too full of ourselves. Where the hell did the fun go? Where the hell did, "Shit that's so much gear it'd be a massive challenge to rack that manageably but cool if you could pull it off somehow."
I get so tired of every question here having a duelist slash/stab/knife response from at least a few.
I'm not new to climbing and I'm not a veteran hard-man. I lean way more towards Suprasoup's style than I do most others.
I like the technical certainty that you and JT have. I love the straight no-nonsense style of petsfed, angry and a few others.
But in general the wrong shit is taken way too seriously. Alien's ripping apart and no PR from them after multiple efforts? Yeah! That sucks. Misthreading a GriGri and having a climber deck. Yeah that sucks and that's serious. A massive block busting loose and shrapnel killing the belayer who even in death had the rope gripped and locked off. Heroic and serious.
Let's have some more fun here. Laugh at ourselves? Laugh at others? But do we really need to yard-hard on stuff all the time?
I'm quoting you Gabe but I'm not talking about you. You have put in enough time here and have given so much to so many here that frankly you get carte blanche. So hopefully you don't take this arrow out of the air and stick it in your leg because I'm not shooting at you.
In general though if I want to look like a Christmas Tree in rubbers that should be okay right?
You should have seen it when I got all racked up with 2 full double-slings, the massive tri-cam, the Camalot #5 and the cow-bell hexcentric it was funnier than hell. My kids started singing carols and shoving presents under my kilt.
Yeah. Laugh at me. Someday I'll figure all this shit out though. When that day happens I'll stare around and think, "Ah shit. Gabe was right."
Was this a rant? A ramble? A waste?
Who knows for sure but it's Friday and I'm feeling short for the weekend.
(This post was edited by unrest on Sep 25, 2009, 4:24 PM)
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tedman
Sep 25, 2009, 4:23 PM
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I'll third the elite synchro. I'll rack 90% of stuff on the harness and then have any large (BD #3 or above) or specialty pieces on a shoulder sling if things are getting cluttered. I've found that draws work great in the top 'small' gear loop and then gear split on the bottom two on each side. cordolette, shoes, belay device, spare lockers etc are on the back 7th loop.
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 4:31 PM
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Yeah I just was spying out the synchro and it's cool. Very cool.
I'm kind of searching for an itch and here's the itch. I love multi-pitch big-time. I'm extremely strong and have endurance for my endurance. I don't mind hauling stuff. I do 95% roped solo climbing.
I need something that can take a thick rack, 60m of 7 mil 12kn cord, 1 liter of water, softshell, slings, runners, etc... and keep it all organized, tight and such. If I'm doing multi-pitch roped-solo I want to have more than less but I want it tidy.
The synchro is a big step in that direction for sure. I'll keep searching though.
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shimanilami
Sep 25, 2009, 4:46 PM
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If you're doing roped solo multipitch climbing, why don't you just bring the extra gear up when you're cleaning the pitch? Or use your 60m of 7mm cord to tag extra gear off a fifi?
Whatever. I use a 1" piece of webbing tied in a loop if I'm free climbing and need more gear than my harness can hold. If I'm aiding, I've got a BD Zodiac that can hold tons of gear, but isn't too bulky in and of itself. (I tried the Misty Mountain double sling, but that thing is really bulky.)
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cracklover
Sep 25, 2009, 5:48 PM
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unrest wrote: cracklover wrote: How much gear are you talking about?... I use a Misty Mountain double gear sling. You'd be justifiably laughed at if you wore one for trad climbing... GO Not at all. I'm just rambling about generalities that stemmed from quoting your predicted reaction from the climbing zealots.
Not sure what this means.
In reply to: So funny and sad. I was just talking with another member here about what climbing really is. Elitist? Smug? Absolute? Rigid? If people want to laugh let them. It'll make them feel hollow someday.
That's certainly my attitude. I listen hard to those with experience. And then I choose my own path. Good or bad, I dunno, but it seems to work for me.
In reply to: My question stems from wanting to have -ALL- of it on and to spend hours and hours placing it, removing it, falling on it, repeat, repeat. Of course it would be nice if while doing this it wasn't a massive cluster. I suppose I could just rack up a few pieces here and there and reload/rerack when I need to.
Hmm... I think the problem stems from none of us being really clear about what you're trying to accomplish.
If you want to just walk along the base of a wall with your whole entire rack, find a likely spot, place as much gear as you can, bounce on it, make anchors with it, etc, and then clean it, move to the next spot, and repeat, then I think it really doesn't matter what you rack it on. Put all the gear on three slings - say big cams on one, small cams on a second, passive gear and slings on a third - then pick it up, move it to the next spot, put it down on your tarp, and play there. No big deal, right? Totally organized.
Or, if you want to take it all with you when climbing (either trad climbing or aiding) then my suggestion still stands: I have the Misty Mountain big wall double-gear sling, and I love it. Looks like this:
I can't imagine a much more comfortable way to carry the whole damn thing, including the kitchen sink.
Just saying, if this is for free climbing, expect some looks.
In reply to: <snipped rant that I don't entirely understand>
Sorry if I take things too seriously. I thought your question was meant to be serious. Anyway, I haven't seen anyone here jump down your throat on this thread, so... ???
In reply to: I'm quoting you Gabe but I'm not talking about you. You have put in enough time here and have given so much to so many here that frankly you get carte blanche. So hopefully you don't take this arrow out of the air and stick it in your leg because I'm not shooting at you.
Yeah, not really sure who or what you're shooting at. And no, I don't get carte blanche, though I appreciate the fact you think I know a thing or two. Anyway, maybe you figgured I was "knifing" you? What was meant was that just as your friends might call you a lard-ass if you bought a big-wall harness for sport climbing, you might equally get some ribbing if you wore a big-wall double gear sling for trad climbing. Still, if you like it, fuckin' do it, man! I can't tell you how many funny questions I get all the time about shit I do. I learned a long time ago to just roll with the punches.
In reply to: In general though if I want to look like a Christmas Tree in rubbers that should be okay right?
Only if the rubbers have spermicidal jelly. And are ribbed. I mean, everyone knows there's a right way and a wrong way to wear your protection. Isn't that what this thread is all about?
In reply to: You should have seen it when I got all racked up with 2 full double-slings, the massive tri-cam, the Camalot #5 and the cow-bell hexcentric it was funnier than hell. My kids started singing carols and shoving presents under my kilt.
Next time I want pictures, dammit! And can you wear a pointy green hat with an angel on top?
In reply to: Yeah. Laugh at me. Someday I'll figure all this shit out though. When that day happens I'll stare around and think, "Ah shit. Gabe was right."
Damn straight I was! 
No seriously, I'm just a journeyman. I've figured out one or two things along the way, and I'm not shy about sharing what I've learned. That doesn't mean the same thing works for you.
Cheers, and have a good weekend!
GO
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bennydh
Sep 25, 2009, 6:02 PM
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unrest wrote: Yeah I just was spying out the synchro and it's cool. Very cool. I'm kind of searching for an itch and here's the itch. I love multi-pitch big-time. I'm extremely strong and have endurance for my endurance. I don't mind hauling stuff. I do 95% roped solo climbing. I need something that can take a thick rack, 60m of 7 mil 12kn cord, 1 liter of water, softshell, slings, runners, etc... and keep it all organized, tight and such. If I'm doing multi-pitch roped-solo I want to have more than less but I want it tidy. The synchro is a big step in that direction for sure. I'll keep searching though.
Shizer man! Do you have a portaledge with plumbing and a flush toilet that goes with you too? 
(This post was edited by bennydh on Sep 25, 2009, 6:03 PM)
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markc
Sep 25, 2009, 6:12 PM
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How much crap are we talking about here? I understand you want to take more than you're likely to need, but it's not entirely clear exactly how much that is. I've seen photos in the rack thread where people have more cams than I would want to hike in with, let alone take up a route. Others play it much leaner than I do. An idea of the amount of protection and number of slings carried might help.
I don't like the weight of the rack swinging around while I'm leading. I tend to rack gear on my harness, a Misty Mountain with 6 gear loops. The four upper loops are used for gear, and the two lower rear loops are used for things I won't need mid-pitch (belay device, spare lockers, etc.). I put my slings (15 + screamer) on a gear sling. They're not very bulky and don't have much weight, and they're easy to grab.
If I'm at a rest and I know I'll need a certain piece in the next section, I can move it from my harness to the sling. If I'm gripped, I might rerack to the sling until I get to a more secure point. I find it pretty flexible, but I might be carrying less than you.
As far as people taking racking too seriously, I think you may be taking people's comments the wrong way. Some people strongly express their opinions, but they're just sharing what's consistently worked for them. It's up to you what you want to do with it. I reserve the right to laugh at anyone hauling the kitchen sink up a route, and some may laugh at me for sometimes racking hexes. No skin off my nose.
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robdotcalm
Sep 25, 2009, 7:21 PM
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Since I spend a lot of time climbing wide cracks and doing multi-pitch, I mostly use a gear sling while the draws go on the front gear loops. In fact, my favorite harness is the Arcteryx S240 which has only 2 gear loops. It’s nice not to have loops and such hook on the back of a chimney or offwidth. I’ve seen people turn 5.7 offwidths into desperate 5.10s by having cams on their rear gear loops. On slab climbs, everything goes on the gear loops, since that keeps the gear from dangling in front on low angle stretches of the climb
Here’s an amusing picture from a week ago when Ben (he’s climbing, I’m belaying) and I were working on a first ascent that after the face start goes wide-crack. We haven’t redpointed the climb yet, but it turns out not all that gear was necessary, although from the ground we couldn’t tell. The zip line was to haul up the bolt kit to set a rappel station.
For what it's worth, that's a Metolius gear sling. Works just fine. Usually, I just have trad draws, usually carried on the gear loops + 2 Metolius Rabbit Runners over the shoulder.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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csproul
Sep 25, 2009, 7:32 PM
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bennydh wrote: unrest wrote: Yeah I just was spying out the synchro and it's cool. Very cool. I'm kind of searching for an itch and here's the itch. I love multi-pitch big-time. I'm extremely strong and have endurance for my endurance. I don't mind hauling stuff. I do 95% roped solo climbing. I need something that can take a thick rack, 60m of 7 mil 12kn cord, 1 liter of water, softshell, slings, runners, etc... and keep it all organized, tight and such. If I'm doing multi-pitch roped-solo I want to have more than less but I want it tidy. The synchro is a big step in that direction for sure. I'll keep searching though. Shizer man! Do you have a portaledge with plumbing and a flush toilet that goes with you too? 
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2209781;#2209781
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markc
Sep 25, 2009, 7:32 PM
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robdotcalm wrote: Since I spend a lot of time climbing wide cracks and doing multi-pitch, I mostly use a gear sling while the draws go on the front gear loops... On slab climbs, everything goes on the gear loops, since that keeps the gear from dangling in front on low angle stretches of the climb.
That's a great point. The nature of the route might dictate certain methods of racking. I have certain preferences, but try to remain flexible. That goes for partners, as well. If a partner really prefers racking on the gear sling, we can lead in blocks or we'll just pick one method for the day.
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vegastradguy
Sep 25, 2009, 8:13 PM
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unrest wrote: I need something that can take a thick rack, 60m of 7 mil 12kn cord, 1 liter of water, softshell, slings, runners, etc... and keep it all organized, tight and such. If I'm doing multi-pitch roped-solo I want to have more than less but I want it tidy.
if you want all of that on a sling, you'll want the Misty or Yates chest harness rigs- an over the shoulder wont hold that much crap.
if you parse out everything but the rack, an over the shoulder may do the trick, but it sounds like you're not a fan.
gabes recommendation of the misty is good. i use a Yates Big Wall Chest Harness when i'm aiding, and used to use it when i carried a shit ton of gear (i was new) and loved it- esp for full double racks (with triples in certain sizes).
these days, i run on a metolius over the shoulder and dont mind it up to doubles to 3" and a 4" piece. after that, it gets a bit unwieldy- so i'll stash non-essential pieces on my back gear loops on my harness.
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caughtinside
Sep 25, 2009, 8:35 PM
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Hey unrest,
One thing you might try is 'vertical racking' (it might have other names too, but that's what I've heard it called.)
So you clip your #1 camalot to your harness or gear sling. Clip your other #1s to the biner for the first #1.
I don't really like doing this on my harness, but I do like doing it on the gear sling, because things get less bunched/pinched on the sling (I use a single loop sling, not the metolius 4 loop sling.)
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 8:49 PM
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So in the last year we've had 1 cougar attack, 3 sightings. I camped by myself in a campground that also had a bear nosing around my tent (later disclosed by a park ranger following the bear). When I was up on a remote wall out in the remote wilderness I watched a bear come over to my pack on the ground and go through it. Previously warned I had hauled my food up the wall about 30 feet (and should have hauled my pack too.
I don't really get the frown? So you'd rather people get mauled by a wild animal then have them fire some shots in the air to run them off? The hollow points are for those animals that choose to stay and eat.
Oh I also forgot. Where I climb they just issued hunting tags for the Gray Wolfs now in pack strengths of 100's. They've cornered horses, people and cows.
I guess you can keep frowning if you want. Where I live it's a bit more remote than say Rumney, Shawgunks or the Red. If I actually see other people when I climb it's rare.
Yes, I haul a lot because it's me myself and I. I like it that way. Sure I have to climb well below my grade to keep it safe but I'm after the escape and the scenery when I'm doing this.
It's also the 2nd amendment and it's a right. Wild predators put me lower on the food chain than they are. The .40 puts me back where I feel comfortable.
Capiche? Good. I'm not a violent person but being mauled isn't really on the list of experiences I'm seeking before I die.
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 8:54 PM
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You are a details kind of person. You literally made a tick for very nearly everything I said. You took it better than I hoped, spliced in some humor, made it redundant and then laughed a bit too.
Thanks for the reply. I targeted you specifically because you always provide very well thought out answers even if you don't really understand what pharmaceutical the OP is really on.
I'm better informed than I was. I even have some new gear I'm going to order.
All in all I appredciate your experience.
-------------/edit
Oh I forgot to mention. Plugging tons of gear was just one need. I was actually wondering how you can organize gear concisely even if it is bulky and laughable. There are times where maybe you don't have good/any beta and you have several pitches that you just want to take a run at.
I'm one of those people that tries a lot of things and figures them out way ahead of time so that when need arises I've already worked it out and am ready. If the need never arises I'm sure I still learn useful things.
As far as taking racking too seriously and such and my comments about that... Maybe I'm the person that needs to relax. If so I guess I'll have to go climb until I feel more loose.
It's a good life.
(This post was edited by unrest on Sep 25, 2009, 9:02 PM)
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 8:57 PM
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This is an interesting idea. Like you I don't know how I feel about it. I just experimented a bit using one shoulder sling 48" with a few nots tied in it to partition it and a metolius gear sling. The combination was actually useful. The metolius sling has a place on the front and back where a smaller non-locker can go. I clipped the knotted 48" sling into it and actually came up with something I half-way liked. The vertical racking seems like it might have come from big-wall necessity but it's a good thing to know.
thanks
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unrest
Sep 25, 2009, 9:16 PM
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Gosh! I've read several of your posts and had you ringed in at 30 or so, lean and hard. Please don't be offended you inspire me. I cannot wait to be your age and still be climbing. That will be the best.
That's the biggest cam I have ever seen. I've never had quite that much gear on. That much I am sure of. So if you can rack that then I'm probably okay with what I'm doing even though I'd prefer a better system.
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csproul
Sep 25, 2009, 9:22 PM
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unrest wrote: So in the last year we've had 1 cougar attack, 3 sightings. I camped by myself in a campground that also had a bear nosing around my tent (later disclosed by a park ranger following the bear). When I was up on a remote wall out in the remote wilderness I watched a bear come over to my pack on the ground and go through it. Previously warned I had hauled my food up the wall about 30 feet (and should have hauled my pack too. I don't really get the frown? So you'd rather people get mauled by a wild animal then have them fire some shots in the air to run them off? The hollow points are for those animals that choose to stay and eat. Oh I also forgot. Where I climb they just issued hunting tags for the Gray Wolfs now in pack strengths of 100's. They've cornered horses, people and cows. I guess you can keep frowning if you want. Where I live it's a bit more remote than say Rumney, Shawgunks or the Red. If I actually see other people when I climb it's rare. Yes, I haul a lot because it's me myself and I. I like it that way. Sure I have to climb well below my grade to keep it safe but I'm after the escape and the scenery when I'm doing this. It's also the 2nd amendment and it's a right. Wild predators put me lower on the food chain than they are. The .40 puts me back where I feel comfortable. Capiche? Good. I'm not a violent person but being mauled isn't really on the list of experiences I'm seeking before I die.
(This post was edited by csproul on Sep 25, 2009, 9:23 PM)
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