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kostik
Sep 25, 2009, 2:43 AM
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camhead wrote: If you mean to say that the fact he climbs consistent 5.12 in the gym would not translate to granite slab/trad, then yes, you're right.
I'd rather have jt post my log, complete with majidesque red circles and arrows, than climb slab/trad. I don't even know how to use SLCD. And I want to know how to use it no more than I want to know the rules of baseball. There is something equally backward and inferior about both slab climbing and baseball.
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jt512
Sep 25, 2009, 3:26 AM
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kostik wrote: There is something equally backward and inferior about both slab climbing and baseball.
They're slow moving.
You can excel at them, even if you are overweight.
You can get hurt sliding.
I never realized it before, but they are practically the same sport.
Jay
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Stormeh
Sep 25, 2009, 3:50 AM
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jt512 wrote: kostik wrote: There is something equally backward and inferior about both slab climbing and baseball. They're slow moving. You can excel at them, even if you are overweight. You can get hurt sliding. I never realized it before, but they are practically the same sport. Jay
You guys are a bunch of communists.
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kostik
Sep 25, 2009, 3:53 AM
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Stormeh wrote: jt512 wrote: kostik wrote: There is something equally backward and inferior about both slab climbing and baseball. They're slow moving. You can excel at them, even if you are overweight. You can get hurt sliding. I never realized it before, but they are practically the same sport. Jay You guys are a bunch of communists.
No. Chaves and Castro play baseball and climb slabs. You want to be like them?
(This post was edited by kostik on Sep 25, 2009, 4:03 AM)
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jh_angel
Sep 25, 2009, 4:03 AM
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gosharks wrote: Now that I've relocated to a much more climber-friendly environment that offers extremely close sport climbing, I have been able to actually project stuff and hence I finally am closing in on my 13a RP. For those profile checkers out there, here's my 8a scorecard
Wait, so you are working on getting your first 13a, but are still trying The Fly?
Sorry for the tread jacking, but it's already happened enough on this one I figured no one would mind.
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bennydh
Sep 25, 2009, 4:26 AM
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kostik wrote: Stormeh wrote: jt512 wrote: kostik wrote: There is something equally backward and inferior about both slab climbing and baseball. They're slow moving. You can excel at them, even if you are overweight. You can get hurt sliding. I never realized it before, but they are practically the same sport. Jay You guys are a bunch of communists. No. Chaves and Castro play baseball and climb slabs. You want to be like them?
Fuck yeah! Chavez nationalizes an entire country's oil, can give the finger to the US as well as international oil companies, and no one does shit. The man knows how to be a hard ass and do whatever he wants without repercussion. I'll bet he doesn't even slide into base. He just points, says that is mine now, and everyone just shits their pants and steps out of the way.
I wouldn't taunt Chavez like I egg Jay on with my loaded word choices, that's for damn sure. 
A bolted slab route is a great way to work technical feet, balance, smeary moves, micro crimps, and slopers. You don't like slabs Jay? 
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gosharks
Sep 25, 2009, 8:00 AM
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jh_angel wrote: gosharks wrote: Now that I've relocated to a much more climber-friendly environment that offers extremely close sport climbing, I have been able to actually project stuff and hence I finally am closing in on my 13a RP. For those profile checkers out there, here's my 8a scorecardWait, so you are working on getting your first 13a, but are still trying The Fly? Sorry for the tread jacking, but it's already happened enough on this one I figured no one would mind.
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mleogrande
Sep 25, 2009, 2:56 PM
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bandycoot wrote: I have intersting perspective on climbing 5.13. I think that a lot of people can do it physically, but can't mentally or technically. I go into the climbing gym and watch people crimp, pull, dyno, and lockoff holds that I can only dream about. Then they go outdoors and project 5.12. I have a huge volume of climbing experience on different styles and rock types, and a great lead head and I can outclimb them almost any day. I think a lot of people get to the 5.12 range and then assume that they need to just keep training physically. That may be true, but there are also gains to be had through mental and technical training. Don't let those aspects of your climbing suffer. Sometimes there are huge gains to be had in that area. Josh
I think this is one of my major issues. The last two 5.12 climbers I trained with are more technical than me. I tend to be more confident with my force and power then my balance and technique. Unlike my climbing partners, I seem to struggle with movements where you have to snake your way into position while staying close to the wall. Don't get me wrong my technique is good, just not good enough.
How do I drill myself for this? I've hit a plateau with my stretching routine as well. Does anyone have advice for stretching and how important it is? I have above average flexibility.
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bandycoot
Sep 25, 2009, 4:17 PM
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You've identified a weakness: technical routes. Now just go get on them. Find technical granite routes, sandstone routes, limestone routes, etc. Build the knowledge base you'll need to send in the future.
Gym training and strength training will not help you much in this area. You just need to put in the time...
One of my biggest strategies for improving has been simply:
1. Identify weakness
2. Work on weakness A LOT
3. Repeat...
If you have above average flexibility, that's probably not holding you back. If you want to improve your flexibility and are serious about it, find a GOOD yoga studio.
Josh
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ChuteandClimb
Sep 28, 2009, 9:25 PM
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bandycoot wrote: You've identified a weakness: technical routes. Now just go get on them. Find technical granite routes, sandstone routes, limestone routes, etc. Build the knowledge base you'll need to send in the future. Gym training and strength training will not help you much in this area. You just need to put in the time... One of my biggest strategies for improving has been simply: 1. Identify weakness 2. Work on weakness A LOT 3. Repeat... If you have above average flexibility, that's probably not holding you back. If you want to improve your flexibility and are serious about it, find a GOOD yoga studio. Josh
real advice for any plateau - thanks
for the gym, when ever I plateau, I stop climbing and start bouldering for a couple months and then go back - a big gym issue is the route setters are always the same and tend to set the routes based on what 'they' find difficult - bouldering mixes up what I see and train on for a while
it seems easier to train outside and find different puzzles to learn on than a gym
disclaimer - I'm not sure I've even filled out my profile, but I'm just working into mid 12's lately and suspect that when I get past that I'll have other ideas
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curt
Sep 30, 2009, 12:47 AM
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phillygoat wrote: Drink a lot of beer and eat greasy burritos at least twice a week while sending up to 12d. Then quit drinking so much, and maybe eat a bit better. That's my plan, for the record.
That's pretty much been my plan, too--except the part about backing off the drinking and eating better.
Curt
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LoveGettingStoned
Sep 30, 2009, 2:18 AM
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mleogrande wrote: I've been climbing 5.12 for about a year now. I live in Florida so I climb indoor. I've climbed only a few 5.12 outdoor but have no problem sending 5.12 indoor on a consistent basis. I find it extremely difficult to improve now. Does anyone have any advice or experience that could be helpful? It seems like moving up one letter grade takes forever.
Blast Snoop Dogg's "Gin n Juice" while climbing, do that and you'll be able to onsight those "gym 13's".
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bustloose
Sep 30, 2009, 7:21 PM
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bandycoot wrote: You've identified a weakness: technical routes. _snip_ Gym training and strength training will not help you much in this area. You just need to put in the time...
holy sh*t that's bad advice!!! not counting bad advice that will get you killed, (and getting your shoes wet to stretch them) this is possibly the worst advice i have ever seen on this website.
the best place to work on technique is in the gym! you have at your disposal an environment where you can work on every single bit of technique anyone has ever used. climb technical boulder problems, climb thin vertical routes. if they don't exist exactly to your liking... CREATE them - little wee feet, balancy moves, whatever you feel you're lacking. that's what a gym is for, for christ sakes, TRAINING. If you try and work on your technique by going out and climbing 'technical' rock routes, you're in for a long ride.
you really want to climb 5.13? train properly for it, and climb a lot. listen and watch people who are better than you and learn from how they move. ask questions. work your butt off.
ps - you should see my profile, heroic i tell you.
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bandycoot
Sep 30, 2009, 7:46 PM
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Awesome, the worst advice you've seen on the site... I think I take pride in that!
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steinmethod
Oct 1, 2009, 2:59 PM
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crazy_fingers84 wrote: I will give you the same advice my partner gave me about breaking into 5.13 ... "climb as hard as you can everyday without getting injured" Now, with that being said... I trust this guys opinion. He has climbed well over a hundred different 13's and over a dozen 14's. He attributes his breakthrough into 13's to a year long climbing trip he took several years ago, during which he climbed "as hard as he could everyday without getting injured". good luck.
Good advice! I like it! Im redpointing mid 12s right now and hoping to break into the 13's during my climbing trip starting in the new year!
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bustloose
Oct 1, 2009, 5:28 PM
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really? that's also not good advice, it's stating the obvious. of course you climb as hard as you can every time you go climbing. and i would imagine he means 'everyday that you climb' not just 'everyday', because you'll never get anywhere if you don't let your body rest.
i get so annoyed by people giving 'advice' in this forum. Most people have no idea what they are talking about, and have no idea how to train properly, but jump into threads like they have the holy grail in their hands.
"climb as hard as you can everyday without getting injured" f*ck off already. imagine if you were trying to be a better pitcher and i said to you "throw as hard as you can everyday without getting injured" you'd punch me in the face!!
breaking into 5.13 is hard. there is no secret formula. it takes hard work, dedication, better technique, more strength, more awareness, better route reading skills, better resting skills, better footwork, more focus, and so on, and so on.
climb with people who motivate you and push you to be better, train hard and smart, climb as often as you can on all kinds of terrain, and one day, it will come together.
but what do i know, i've only been climbing and coaching for 15+ years...
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apeman_e
Oct 1, 2009, 8:30 PM
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jt512 wrote: aerili wrote: andersjr wrote: Aren't all ratings, indoor and out, just an imaginary number? No. If so, then we would be striving for 5.13i in this thread. That's complex for this crowd. Jay
..says the guy with 16,500+ posts. Are you part of the crowd, or just better than everyone else?
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apeman_e
Oct 1, 2009, 8:33 PM
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bustloose wrote: curt wrote:  Curt i see your little smiley face, but you should know it does nothing to stop me calling you an ass, it only serves to make me write it in lowercase instead of uppercase...
Harsh. Please don't unleash the capitol letters. No one deserves that.
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bandycoot
Oct 1, 2009, 8:35 PM
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bustloose wrote: climb as often as you can on all kinds of terrain
bandycoot wrote: You've identified a weakness: technical routes. Now just go get on them. Find technical granite routes, sandstone routes, limestone routes, etc. Build the knowledge base you'll need to send in the future.
Somehow my advice is the worst you've seen on the site? How does that work?
bustloose wrote: listen and watch people who are better than you and learn from how they move. ask questions. work your butt off.
FYI, he did ask and received and answer from someone who is better than him (me).
Just because you comprehend less, are more aggressive, and less coherent doesn't mean that you're always right.
Note, no one has said that you're posts are helpful and a few other people have received that compliment. Now stop being as ass youself under the disguise of trying to help.
Josh
(This post was edited by bandycoot on Oct 1, 2009, 8:38 PM)
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bustloose
Oct 1, 2009, 9:40 PM
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now i feel like a real Hollywood star! exactly what do you hope to gain by taking that sentence out of context?
YOU told him to ignore the gym, I told him to use the gym AND to climb as often as he could (you do remember he said he spends almost all his time in the gym right?)
FYI, he got terrible advice over the internet. it is clearly implied in my comment that he ask questions from the people that meets in person.
now, stop pointing out the places where i don't think you were very helpful, and read the places where i was providing positive feedback to the OP.
good lord this place is frustrating.
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bandycoot
Oct 1, 2009, 9:59 PM
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There are an infinite number of ways to attain the grade of 5.13. Everyone is different, they have different rock types available to climb on, different motivations, etc. etc. etc. Not everyone can and will train the same. Those of us who have succesfully pushed ourselves are reporting back what worked for us. If it worked, it worked! If my advice is so terrible, how have I climbed 5.13? What about the other guy who climbed 5.13? If it worked, how is his advice terrible? Can you please give me a coherent explanation as to how that could be instead of making random attacks just saying everyone else's advice is terrible? Hopefully people read these replies, take what works for them and leave the rest.
I never told him to ignore the gym. I'm not sure where you got that from. I simply mentioned that it won't help much with technical routes. Depending on rocktype, indoor technique does not translate well to all outdoor routes that are "technical." Yes, he could create "technical" gym routes, but realistically he probably won't have the time, ability, or motivation for that. The gym is a wonderful place to get strong, but most technique must be perfected outdoors and so it isn't necessarily the best place to train his weakness, which is the advice I gave him. I'd be curious to see if anyone else on this forum would agree that "train your weakness" is the worst advice they'd ever seen.
What a drama queen...
Josh
(This post was edited by bandycoot on Oct 1, 2009, 10:00 PM)
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curt
Oct 1, 2009, 10:16 PM
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bustloose wrote: curt wrote: Curt i see your little smiley face, but you should know it does nothing to stop me calling you an ass, it only serves to make me write it in lowercase instead of uppercase...
Cool--looks like I'm in pretty good company.
Curt
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bustloose
Oct 1, 2009, 10:18 PM
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i disagree, there is a finite number of ways to climb harder, and they all involve training (mental and physical) and climbing. there are a myriad of 5.13 routes that this guy, or anyone else might send as their first 5.13, and it will likely depend on them coming across a route that suits their strengths. i never suggested that people all train the same way, i suggested simply that he train, and that for him, the gym was the best place to do that. this holds true for most people. just going climbing on different routes will be the slowest route to higher grades for many people. of course climbing as much rock as you can is going to make a big difference in your climbing ability, but in no way can you simply say that technique training in the gym does not translate well to rock. the gym is a wonderful place to get strong AND to work on technique. if you want to build up a repetoire of muscle memory for technique, the gym is the ideal place, you can work the same things over and over again, instead of on "that one 5.12 with the sweet matched crimp at the 8th bolt" that you climb maybe once a month...
then you suggest that someone who is itching to push his grade level up won't have the motivation to create routes and boulder problems in the gym?
at no point did i say that "train your weakness" is bad advice.
i am not making random attacks, i am rather carefully noting where people have provided feedback that is far from useful advice for anyone trying to push their climbing. seriously "climb as hard as you can everday without getting hurt", you think that's helpful??
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