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Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw?
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p8ntballsk8r


Oct 11, 2009, 11:07 PM
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Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw?
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Curious what everyone thinks about attempting to climb a route that has more bolts than the number of quickdraws you have.

The way I would go about this, is climb to the first 3 bolts as normal, and on the fourth, instead of hooking up a quickdraw, simply clip in a locking biner to the bolt, and also clip this to the rope. Of course locking it up afterwards.

I do not see anything wrong with this, unless it would sideload the biner or cause something physics related wrong with the setup.

My reason for choosing the 4th bolt (or higher) is as follows. We all know the 1st bolt is important, and the second bolt is the most important since missing this bolt, or falling while attempting to clip this will usually result in hitting the ground.

If we used a locking biner instead of a quickdraw, and it were to whatever reason fail, we would hit the ground being at or above the second bolt without reaching the 3rd.

My guess is the 3rd bolt will usually be high enough that this biner/quickdraw failing will result in a big fall, but the second bolt will still hold us and keep us from hitting the ground.

I chose the 4th bolt to be absolutely sure, that I won't hit the ground, but now as i'm writing this, I'm thinking the 5th might be even better. In case of failure, the 4th bolt would protect us, and the 3rd bolt would back that up. I know this isn't necessary because the 4th bolt will hold, but I like redundancy, especially when my life is on the line.

Let me know what you guys think!


shimanilami


Oct 12, 2009, 12:09 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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Deja vu.


king_rat


Oct 12, 2009, 1:01 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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I would probably take the same approach, but use a locking biner on the last bolt, that way minimizing excess rope drag. I suppose if its safe to do so you could skip one of the top bolts(not ideal). Alternatively if you had any trad gear with you(I know its unlikely at a sport venue) you could make a quickdraw up out of either a trad draw, or by using the sling a cam or some other peace of gear.


cilohabmilc


Oct 12, 2009, 1:07 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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Don't bother counting bolts... a locker is a fine substitute for a quickdraw but is a pain in the neck to get clipped and locked (wasted time/energy) and if the route wanders at all you'll get a heck of a lot of rope drag. When you fall a draw will allow the rope end biner to hang free so that the rope has less of a chance of unclipping itself. A locking mechanism also keeps the rope from unclipping itself. Just make sure that the threads are pointed down so gravity won't unscrew the locker.


tradmanclimbs


Oct 12, 2009, 5:02 AM
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Re: [cilohabmilc] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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The locker is totally safe just use it on whatever bolts are easiests to clip. Or use it on a crucial bolt that prevents fatal groundfall.


sungam


Oct 12, 2009, 5:42 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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I would cancel beers with friends for a week and buy some new draws with the money you saved.


johnwesely


Oct 12, 2009, 5:48 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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I am going to go out on a limb and say you are probably over thinking this. I would just skip the last bolt or only use one draw no the anchor. I am assuming you like p8ntball. Last time I checked p8ntball is rather expensive. Don't go p8ntballing one or two times and buy a bunch of draws.


qwert


Oct 12, 2009, 6:05 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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How bout reading this
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
or the even more recent thread we had on the subject, which i cant find at the moment.

To sum it up:
You can use a locker (or other single biner) on a bolt, and you probably will be safe.
howeveer its a pain to clip, and it will increase rope drag.

So if you have to do this, use a spot where you will not increase rope drag too much, or just do it at the last bolts, where you realize that you run out of draws.

And if you know from the beginning that you are running out of draws, how about doing another route, or making some draws out of slings and biners?

qwert


notapplicable


Oct 12, 2009, 7:19 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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p8ntballsk8r wrote:
Curious what everyone thinks about attempting to climb a route that has more bolts than the number of quickdraws you have.

Skip as many bolts as your short quickdraws. Preferably high on the route but a lot of times the first bolt is a candidate because it's too close to the ground anyway.


Partner angry


Oct 12, 2009, 10:08 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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You need more than 3 quickdraws


milesenoell


Oct 12, 2009, 10:28 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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+1 for just get more draws. If you have a decent number of draws you can probably get away with just skipping bolts, and if you don't, downclimb and grab the draws below the high point, then climb back up and use 'em again. I know his method blows 'cause I did it a number of times when I only had 6 draws, but at least it's safer than using the (non-locking) biners individually (which I also did).


yodadave


Oct 12, 2009, 10:32 AM
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Re: [angry] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off


p8ntballsk8r


Oct 12, 2009, 12:52 PM
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Re: [yodadave] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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yodadave wrote:
angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off

I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.


lena_chita
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Oct 13, 2009, 8:06 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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p8ntballsk8r wrote:
yodadave wrote:
angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off

I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.

Does your partner have some, too?

Yes, you can skip some bolts in some occasions. Yes, you can clip a locking 'biner if you have to.

But really, if you are serious about climbing, you will find that almost all the sport routes worth doing require more than 6 draws.

Go buy some. Or quit climbing.


hafilax


Oct 13, 2009, 8:15 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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p8ntballsk8r wrote:
yodadave wrote:
angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off

I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.
If you've got some extra biners (lockers or non), buy 2 slings (or tie some with webbing or even cord).


photoguy190


Oct 13, 2009, 8:27 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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Why is dumb to buy one or two? Its not that much of a savings to buy in packs of 6, and it sounds like you need more. You can easily find draws for under $12 a piece. There might be nothing wrong with doing it your way, but if you start cutting corners in this sport cause you are cheap. You might as well sell the six draws you have and stick to paintballing


johnwesely


Oct 13, 2009, 8:30 AM
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p8ntballsk8r wrote:
I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.

Why would it be stupid to buy only three. That is how many you need, and then you could climb the route safely instead of waiting until you have enough money to get a six pack.


xaniel2000


Oct 13, 2009, 9:42 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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how are you going to clean an 8 bolt route with 6 draws and 1 locking biner?


johnwesely


Oct 13, 2009, 9:46 AM
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Re: [xaniel2000] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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xaniel2000 wrote:
how are you going to clean an 8 bolt route with 6 draws and 1 locking biner?

Hold on really tight to the anchor, untie, and learn to retie in with one hand and teeth.


bill413


Oct 13, 2009, 9:58 AM
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Re: [sungam] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
I would cancel beers with friends for a week and buy some new draws with the money you saved.

Sacrilege! Shocked
Cancel beers??? ShockedShocked

Get the friends to buy beers for a week...much better.

Oh, another suggestion: borrow some draws from the other climbers around! That takes care of the immediate problem.
Then buy more (in whatever style you can afford).


p8ntballsk8r


Oct 13, 2009, 10:42 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
xaniel2000 wrote:
how are you going to clean an 8 bolt route with 6 draws and 1 locking biner?

Hold on really tight to the anchor, untie, and learn to retie in with one hand and teeth.

Lol you made my day with this one. I'd use 2 locking biners to get to the chains.


hafilax


Oct 13, 2009, 10:49 AM
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There's a story in one of the Smith Rock guide books about a guy on a long sport route. He sees that he's going to run out of draws so he splits the remaining placing one biner on the last few bolts. He gets to the anchor and has nothing left. Luckily there was chain connecting the bolts so he slung his leg over the chain, untied, fed the rope through the chain, retied and lowered.

I think that was all for the flash. Shocked


kachoong


Oct 13, 2009, 10:52 AM
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Re: [p8ntballsk8r] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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p8ntballsk8r wrote:
yodadave wrote:
angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off

I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.

If you go onto a paintball field and there are eight enemies, do you just take six painballs or enough to hit them all? Or god-forbid extra, in case you need more?


shockabuku


Oct 13, 2009, 2:48 PM
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I generally downclimb and backclean some gear. Or get more draws.


p8ntballsk8r


Oct 13, 2009, 3:57 PM
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Re: [kachoong] Using a Locking Biner as a quickdraw? [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:
p8ntballsk8r wrote:
yodadave wrote:
angry wrote:
You need more than 3 quickdraws

laughing my ass off

I have six... I don't think it's possible to buy only 3 unless you get them separate which would be stupid. Anyways, I was trying to figure out a way to climb a 7 or 8 bolt route with only the 6 I have.

If you go onto a paintball field and there are eight enemies, do you just take six painballs or enough to hit them all? Or god-forbid extra, in case you need more?

Well hopefully you'd have better odds than 1 on 8. Kind of depends on what position you play, since I'm a forward I sprint to the 50 yardline, try to take out at least 1 guy, but my main job is callouts for my other players and forcing the other team into bad positions and hiding behind bunkers. I'd say for 8 guys I'd want 500+ paintballs. This is why I play forward so I don't have so waste so much paint/money. The guys who play back on our team shoot 1000-2000 paintballs in a single game, sometimes hoping to get just 1 guy out using the full case.

Anyways, back on topic. Do some sport routes only have bolts or chains on the top without biners already there? If so do you throw way two biners on each route? Where I climb there are two biners attached to the chains so you don't leave any gear up. This way we only need 1 bail biner incase one is damaged or missing

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