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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 6:08 PM
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Hellooo my good people
EDIT: PLEASE NOTE: This is not a discussion about what is the best back up for your rap. I couldn't care less. This is about this one particular picture that I wonder about. 
I bought a few books for some friends of mine that recently started climbing and one of them has a very curious use of a prusik. It's even on the front cover.
Knots & ropes for climbers.
Maybe I have not noticed its use before, but it seems rather odd to me? Please enlighten me with your mad skills.
P.S Don't buy a Sony DSC w190 camera, it's a piece of junk.
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 5, 2009, 6:37 PM)
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hafilax
Nov 5, 2009, 6:14 PM
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Search for "rappel back up" and you will find seemingly endless discussions on the topic. It's incredibly common and I'm surprised you've never seen it before.
The illustration looks like the same style as in the Climbing magazine tech tips.
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 6:18 PM
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I have never seen a prusik above the rap device.
Would that not make it out of reach if it goes tight?
And also make your entire weight hang from your leg loop?
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 5, 2009, 6:32 PM)
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doogle
Nov 5, 2009, 6:19 PM
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hafilax wrote: The illustration looks like the same style as in the Climbing magazine tech tips.
I agree, they always draw the little pinky finger sticking up :)
To the OP: using a prussik backup for abseil is very common.
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qwert
Nov 5, 2009, 6:32 PM
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airscape wrote: I have never seen a prusik above the rap device.
In reply to: Would that not make it out of reach if it goes tight?
In reply to: And also make your entire weight hang from your leg loop?
that looks highly questionable. someone enlighten us?
qwert
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lostlazy
Nov 5, 2009, 6:33 PM
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Auto-block is better IMHO.
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shoo
Nov 5, 2009, 6:38 PM
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That's a minor bit of a modification on a fairly standard method of backing up a rappel. Do a search for more information. The modification is that the prussic is attached to the leg loop, while it is more typical that it would be attached to the belay loop.
Also, anyone notice anything odd about the belay device?
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westbend
Nov 5, 2009, 6:42 PM
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nice catch
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 6:42 PM
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shoo wrote: Also, anyone notice anything odd about the belay device?
Super rope twist?
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Crack_Addict_Ty
Nov 5, 2009, 6:45 PM
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airscape wrote: I have never seen a prusik above the rap device. Would that not make it out of reach if it goes tight? And also make your entire weight hang from your leg loop?
You've obviously never seen me rap then.,...........or a lot of other people for that matter.
I attache the prussik to my belay loop with a locking biner, so no leg loops involved.
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 6:54 PM
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Crack_Addict_Ty wrote: airscape wrote: I have never seen a prusik above the rap device. Would that not make it out of reach if it goes tight? And also make your entire weight hang from your leg loop? You've obviously never seen me rap then.,...........or a lot of other people for that matter. I attache the prussik to my belay loop with a locking biner, so no leg loops involved.
THat is not what the book shows.
And that is my problem with it.
I wouldn't have had a problem if the prusik is on the main line above the rap device and the cord is attached to the belay loop or tie ins.
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shoo
Nov 5, 2009, 7:12 PM
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airscape wrote: shoo wrote: Also, anyone notice anything odd about the belay device? Super rope twist?
Close, but not quite there.
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thedejongs
Nov 5, 2009, 7:13 PM
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Airscape,
It's relatively common to clip your autoblock into your leg loop. Click on a couple of these search results: http://www.google.com/...q=f&oq=&aqi= I always create the autoblock below the ATC, but I believe there are legit differences of opinion whether it goes above or below. Looks as if this is just a standard autoblock clipped to the leg loop except the abseiler tied a prusik instead. I'm sure the guy will die. 
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shoo
Nov 5, 2009, 7:18 PM
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thedejongs wrote: Airscape, It's relatively common to clip your autoblock into your leg loop. Click on a couple of these search results: http://www.google.com/...q=f&oq=&aqi= I always create the autoblock below the ATC, but I believe there are legit differences of opinion whether it goes above or below. Looks as if this is just a standard autoblock clipped to the leg loop except the abseiler tied a prusik instead. I'm sure the guy will die.
No. It is standard to clip the prusik to your leg loop if your prusik is below the belay device. Alternatively, it is standard to clip your prussic to your belay loop if your prusik if the prusik is above the belay device.
It is NOT standard to clip your prussic to your leg loop if your prusik is above the belay device.
Edited to note: prusik, in the examples above, can be considered to be any similar friction hitch (autoblock, klemheist, etc.)
(This post was edited by shoo on Nov 5, 2009, 7:22 PM)
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TarHeelEMT
Nov 5, 2009, 7:22 PM
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shoo wrote: airscape wrote: shoo wrote: Also, anyone notice anything odd about the belay device? Super rope twist? Close, but not quite there.
It's like one of those optical illusion drawings. The way it runs in and out of the device is rotated 90 degrees from how it goes across the biner.
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granite_grrl
Nov 5, 2009, 7:23 PM
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You think you'd do some research before you posted something like this. Do a search n00b, this might not be the best backup option, but it's not horrible either. Nitpicking is available in other threads.
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shoo
Nov 5, 2009, 7:27 PM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: shoo wrote: airscape wrote: shoo wrote: Also, anyone notice anything odd about the belay device? Super rope twist? Close, but not quite there. It's like one of those optical illusion drawings. The way it runs in and out of the device is rotated 90 degrees from how it goes across the biner.
Correct!
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 7:38 PM
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SOOOO in the name of science I have tested it:
This will not work, you completely invert.
Please note I used a sling with a klemheist instead of a cord with a prusik, but I am hanging on only my legloop.
The whole point with a Rappel back up is in case of emergencies, I do not think hanging upside down on your leg loop will help any situation.
That is all.
No it's not all
Please try it yourself.
THe WHOLE point of this thread is not nitpicking or discussing viable options.
I have a book that teaches the WRONG thing..,
Thist thread is nothing more than a book review
I give Knots & Ropes for climbers a 1/5
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 5, 2009, 7:42 PM)
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 7:47 PM
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Oh and by the way, do you know how it F@king hurts to hang on you legloop?
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andrewG
Nov 5, 2009, 7:54 PM
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airscape wrote: SOOOO in the name of science I have tested it: [image]http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt3/chewy_dragee/Untitled-1.jpg[/image] This will not work, you completely invert. Please note I used a sling with a klemheist instead of a cord with a prusik, but I am hanging on only my legloop. The whole point with a Rappel back up is in case of emergencies, I do not think hanging upside down on your leg loop will help any situation. That is all. No it's not all Please try it yourself. THe WHOLE point of this thread is not nitpicking or discussing viable options. I have a book that teaches the WRONG thing.., Thist thread is nothing more than a book review I give Knots & Ropes for climbers a 1/5
Using spectra/dyneema for a friction hitch? You are going to die.
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bill413
Nov 5, 2009, 7:57 PM
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I think the extended pinky is a point of etiquette.
I believe there have been a couple of books with the same title - an old one I had wasn't bad.
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 8:04 PM
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THis book is first edition, so you have the same one.
This one is by Duane Raleigh.
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 5, 2009, 8:05 PM)
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airscape
Nov 5, 2009, 8:09 PM
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I did not have anything else.
And it was on my doorframe. And it was for science.
You think I should write it down in my SLing log?
(This post was edited by airscape on Nov 5, 2009, 8:19 PM)
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nate2006
Nov 5, 2009, 8:37 PM
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I agree here, hanging from your leg loop in an emergency, possibly even unconscious, is going to make a bad situation worse.
Bottom line, the rappel backup option on the cover of this book is by far the worst option for rappel backups.
If your options were no backups or this type of backup I would go without. Because no matter what, the ends of your rope should always have knots in it for rappel.
Any rappel backup above the belay device should be attached to your tie points or belay loop.
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Crack_Addict_Ty
Nov 5, 2009, 10:22 PM
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airscape wrote: Crack_Addict_Ty wrote: airscape wrote: I have never seen a prusik above the rap device. Would that not make it out of reach if it goes tight? And also make your entire weight hang from your leg loop? You've obviously never seen me rap then.,...........or a lot of other people for that matter. I attache the prussik to my belay loop with a locking biner, so no leg loops involved.THat is not what the book shows. And that is my problem with it. I wouldn't have had a problem if the prusik is on the main line above the rap device and the cord is attached to the belay loop or tie ins.
Good point, I will agree and say that I really have never understood the idea behind attaching your prussik to a leg loop. Can anyone enlighten me on the this one.
P.S. I am too lazy to search
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