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showers at Miguel's
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granite_grrl


Nov 5, 2009, 6:54 AM
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Registered: Oct 25, 2002
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Re: [camhead] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Fenst wrote:
I don't have any beef with Miguels or any other businesses that take away potential conservation funds. I think the fundamentals of outdoor recreation ethics are widely overlooked by the surge of gym climbers who have no clue what LNT or minimum impact ethics are these days. In that light, maybe a overused campground with toilets are just what the Red needs to filter out the wreckless gym people from the numerous gorgeous legal campsites nestled in the gorge that I use, cherish, and clean up.

Uhhh... what are you talking about? Is your entire argument based upon the fact that Miguel's is taking campsite fee revenue away from the National Forest, which would otherwise be used for conservation/rehabilitation? If so, that's incredibly weak.

I honestly don't know how much $$$ Miguel's directly puts into conservation causes, but they certainly have sponsored/hosted events that have raised a lot of money for the PMRP. Does this qualify as "conservation" in your view?
I'm pretty sure that "conservation" is really about banning new routing, limiting the number of people accessing the walls and closing down a number of other ones.


Fenst


Nov 5, 2009, 12:08 PM
Post #52 of 56 (787 views)
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Re: [granite_grrl] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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I looked into it a little and Miguels does some event sponsoring that proceeds PMNP.
Miguels isn't a bad place to patronize. But I would like to see some more effort put out by the operators of that business along the lines of educating, sparking iniatiative amongst climbers/hikers, and cleaning up the climbing areas(these ideas don't cost much$). This could be some awesome marketing too.
As for conservation, shutting down an area for a season or two isn't a bad idea in some cases. Limiting the number of climbers in an area is a great idea. I can't tell you how disturbing it is to go back to the Gallery ( a good example) and find a youth group of 15 kids and 2 trip leaders trampeling the heck out of the place. Take a look around when you go there next. The place is getting destroyed. There used to be a bunch of white haired goldenrod(endangered) back there but it has been trampled down to a few small remaining patches. Wouldn't it be nice if a business donated some resources to fence these areas off to promote new growth. Or, with the way things are blowing up in the Red, let the Forest Service shut down a whole area.
Do you fellow climbers and crags a favor and practice some LNT, minimum impact and get involved. Involved doesn't mean you have to give money or go to the various sprayfests in the Red. Bring out a small garbage bag and start picking up trash...this will make that shower at Miguels alot more rewarding and well earned.


johnwesely


Nov 5, 2009, 12:35 PM
Post #53 of 56 (776 views)
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Re: [Fenst] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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Fenst wrote:
The Red River Gorge and Daniel Boone National Forest lie in poverty stricken areas....Not too much tax money from the locals comes around to building the infrastructure.

All of the money climbers spend helps bring in tax revenue

In reply to:
There used to be a bunch of white haired goldenrod(endangered) back there but it has been trampled down to a few small remaining patches.

Miguel's has posters up about this. What else do you want them to do? wake everyone up at eight every morning and give a lecture on conservation?


bigjonnyc


Nov 5, 2009, 1:41 PM
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Re: [Fenst] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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Fenst wrote:
...Or, with the way things are blowing up in the Red, let the Forest Service shut down a whole area...

The Gallery is in the PMRP. This area is owned by the RRGCC (as long as they continue to make their payments). What does the Forest Service have to do with it?


btg


Nov 5, 2009, 2:55 PM
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Re: [bigjonnyc] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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Fenst,

Miguel's as an already highly impacted site is a great place for people not familiar with/not practicing LNT to stay. Instead of the forest.

What do you mean by making the Gorge a "safer" place? Poverty does not equal crime. Maybe you meant it in some esoteric environmental safety way, whatever.

Lastly, who died and made you King of the Gorge? To suggest that Miguel's, a small family run business, ought to be a panacea to all the Gorge smacks of ignorance and hypocrisy. Small businesses take a hell of a lot time, money, and energy to run. And they already support the climbing community, $2 a night is cheaper than anywhere else.

Why don't you move to Slade, start a successful business, and then donate more time and energy to solving poverty, endangered species, trash, pollution, and dry counties. Then maybe you can post up on what others should be doing.

-ben

p.s. if this keeps going it may deserve another thread instead of the "showers" thread Tongue


Varanuschris


Nov 6, 2009, 2:53 AM
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Registered: Mar 19, 2009
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Re: [Fenst] showers at Miguel's [In reply to]
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Fenst: I see what you are saying but we need to recognize that without Miguel's there pretty much wouldn't be a RRG climbing scene and so probably very little conservation at all. I don't know if Miguel ever gave a cent to any conservation effort but he has certainly provided a space, literally and figuratively, for those conversations to take place.

Haters: I have stayed at Miguel's a couple of times and never had any of the problems you guys have. The showers are camp site showers, they aren't going to be like home (ain't that the point?) I always camp out in the field and never have a hard time sleeping (bring some earplugs)

As for the Dudebros spraying they aren't that bad and they are more than made up for by all the wonderful people I have met there.

Pretty much Miguel's is awesome.

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