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klopik


Nov 11, 2009, 2:19 PM
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Pregnant, climbing and being judged...
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OK, this one here is just a vent post.
I know there are a lot of stupid people out there who are trigger happy to criticize anything anyone else does, but...

I am a week short of being 5 months pregnant. I am feeling good, and I am still climbing in the gym, run and work out regularly. I am not leading and not bouldering, just toproping. In a very goofy looking full body harness :) I'm climbing very easy stuff now days - hardest I can do is 5.10a-b on a good day. So, in order to stay in shape and at least feel like I am climbing something what I do a laps on 5.7s and 5.8s - where I will go 3 or more times on the same route without any rest.

I am used to looking in my non-climbing friend's horrified eyes "omg, you are still climbing?????" and patiently explaining to people that my baby (btw, its a boy!!! :) benefits from me excercising, he gets more oxygen and gets rocked to sleep and generally feels better then I feel better, and if I am feeling well - why the hell should I stop living my life?

But yesterday I had a super unpleasant experience in the climbing gym...
So, I was doing my laps. It was a 5.7, so I was moving really quickly. My HTB was belaying me. This woman comes up to him and asks him if we are going to switch. He says - no. So she decides to wait for the rope. He didn't notice that she is standing there, so he doesn't tell her that I am going to do the route again. I am moving very quickly, so I come down, drink some water and go up again. Then come down, drink some water at which point of time she is asking if I am planning on untieing in this very unpleasant voice. I smile at her and say that I am going to go up one more time, but then the rope is all hers. She starts to yell that this is so rude, that she's been waiting for the rope now for like 5 minutes (this is a pretty crowded gym. I have spent maybe 7 min on the wall total time, which is much less then I often did when I was workign something before I got pregnant), that we are horrible people for doing this, and that I am going to end up with a miscarriage for climbing pregnant and that will be entirely my own fault. And walks off.

I go and finish up my last lap. Its kind of annoying and upsetting, but there are many idiots in the world, can't get upset at every one of them.

Then I am untying the rope, this other woman climber comes up to me, she is a serious one, I have seen her numerous times before climbing outside and starts lecturing me that I should think about my child and not climb while pregnant, it is a risky activity, she doesn' thave children but would imagine that it is not something you want to do while pregnant. And that there was another woman climber who was climbing while pregnant, and 2 weeks ago she actually went to the hospital straight from the gym!

Yeah, and I happen to know this woman. And yes she did go to the hospital straight from the gym to deliver a perfectly healthy baby girl, and she was 5 days past her due date!

WTF???? Seriously?? What is with people who just want to judge and impose their own views on you? :(

Sorry, just a rant. But it just really got to me yesterday... especially because a couple of days before I was running and it was really warm, so I took off my jacket and was only wearing a short tank top that really showed off that I am pregnant and as I was stretching afterwards before going home some woman came up to me to tell me that I really shouldnt do things like that in my condition and I just need to spend as much time as possible laying down if I want to have a healthy baby.

Argh :(


erisspirit


Nov 11, 2009, 2:44 PM
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I'm not pregnant, nor have I ever been, but watching friends/family that have been, I have noticed that it seems like many still handle pregnant women as if they have some grave medical condition. My sister really bought into a lot of that, and stopped running immediately after getting pregnant. She wouldn't even start back up after an OK and encouragement from her doctor


klopik


Nov 11, 2009, 3:37 PM
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Yeah!
I keep saying - I am pregnant, not disabled! (although state of california seems to think that pregnancy is a disability...)
I was told I can't do deep water diving, skydiving, snowboarding and dirt bike racing. Everything else is just fine if I am up for it!


wonderwoman


Nov 11, 2009, 4:40 PM
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I am so sorry that all that happened to you! It's unfortunate that we can't control how other people behave. We can only control how we react to bad behavior. Sounds like you're a very healthy and happy person, but these other people were out to make you as miserable as they are!

You should have asked where they went to medical school.Tongue

Congrats on your baby! Don't let stupid people bring you down!


Partner macherry


Nov 11, 2009, 5:39 PM
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oh good lord, whatever happened to mind your own business!!

too bad you have to put up with that kind of crap


troutboy


Nov 11, 2009, 9:29 PM
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My yoga instructor had an interesting insight this morning that seems applicable here.

Basically, you never know what might be going on in someone's life, someone who normally might be a very nice person, but says or does something rude or nasty.

You cannot control their life, so maintain coltrol of yours. If you are happy with what you are doing, just smile, thank them for their input, and give them the benefit of the doubt under the assumption they are having a difficult time.

It's also possible they are jealous of your healthy pregnancy and are somehow taking out their frustration on you.

Good luck with the remainder of your pregnancy.

T


granite_grrl


Nov 12, 2009, 5:49 AM
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klopik wrote:
Yeah!
I keep saying - I am pregnant, not disabled! (although state of california seems to think that pregnancy is a disability...)
I was told I can't do deep water diving, skydiving, snowboarding and dirt bike racing. Everything else is just fine if I am up for it!
You know, that would make a good t-shirt.


wonderwoman


Nov 12, 2009, 7:02 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
klopik wrote:
Yeah!
I keep saying - I am pregnant, not disabled! (although state of california seems to think that pregnancy is a disability...)
I was told I can't do deep water diving, skydiving, snowboarding and dirt bike racing. Everything else is just fine if I am up for it!
You know, that would make a good t-shirt.

no kidding! Or how about 'Keep your ill-informed opinions off my body!'


klopik


Nov 12, 2009, 10:55 AM
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Thank you!


klopik


Nov 12, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Sure, and I understand that too. I usually just very politely thank people for their advice and completely ignore it.
But three in a row got to me :)


klopik


Nov 12, 2009, 10:58 AM
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:)
Yep, I should start a line of atheltic clothing for pregnant women, and that would be our motto :)

And our logo would be a woman climber with a baby belly :)


clee03m


Nov 12, 2009, 11:29 AM
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I'll be 20 weeks soon, and I get similar comments from time to time. My favorite is the smug, "I guess you are not climbing anymore!" comment. Whey I politely inform them I am actually still climbing, they look at me like I should be reported to the authorities. And there was a girl on one of the threads who told me I shouldn't gotten pregnant if I wanted to continue to lead. Interesting since from everything I've researched and all the OB's I've talked to say that upto 14-16 weeks, trauma to the abdomen is a non-issue.

Assholes will be assholes. What can you do? Klopik, I wish we lived near by. I have started my slow look around for partners with kids.

My most disturbing comment was actually from a climbing partner. After I told him how I am so excited about the upcoming weekend for a climb I've been planning for months, he told me he would not feel comfortable if his pregnant wife (funny he didn't even have a girlfriend at the time) wanted to climb that route for fear of rock fall. This was very early in pregnancy where blunt trauma to the abdomen would not be an issue. At the end of the day, he questioned about whether I wanted a natural birth, and when I said I want an epidural, he asked, "But isn't it better for the baby to not have one?" I understand he meant well, but I couldn't help feeling like he was out of line. I feel like this experience kind of ruined our partnership.


lena_chita
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Nov 12, 2009, 11:44 AM
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I think you will find, as you start to show more, that seeing a round pregnant belly gets all sorts of people to make all sorts of insane comments to you, regardless of what you are doing.

They will tell you to drink juice instead of water, if they see you drinking water, and tell you to drink water instead of juice, if they see you drinking juice.

They will tell you not to eat spicy foods because they cause miscarriage. (yeah, right-- that's why India has overpopulation!)

They will tell you not to sit in a certain way, not to stand, not to walk, etc. etc. -- they will also tell you to sit, stand, walk, etc., if that is not what you are doing at the moment.

Basicly, no matter what you are doing, there would be someone advising you that doing that during pregnancy is bad and you should be doing something else.

I suggest that you develop a thicker skin, learn to trust your own judgement, and expand your repertoire of polite noncommitting way of saying: "Thank you for your concern, mind your own business". This is training for parenthood. If you think you are getting too much unwanted advice now, wait until you go in public with the baby...


Oh, and since you are getting bigger now, I also suggest that you prepare for the first time some random stranger tries to pat your belly. Grrr!!!! Get your hands OFF me!!!!


clee03m


Nov 12, 2009, 12:30 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
Oh, and since you are getting bigger now, I also suggest that you prepare for the first time some random stranger tries to pat your belly. Grrr!!!! Get your hands OFF me!!!!

No strangers, yet, but I'm 1-2 in count among people I know. First time, I fended the offending hand off my belly, but the last two times, it was so sudden! They strike without warning and then coo after the rub. I really don't like getting my belly rubbed by anyone. I try to tell everyone and their mother about how my belly is not to be rubbed, but seems that it is still happening. I will go ape shit if a stranger touches me. It won't be pretty.


erica


Nov 12, 2009, 12:43 PM
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I am also a few days shy of 20 weeks, and have been amazed at the mix of reactions about my continuing to climb. From fellow climbers, it has been nothing but positive. From my coworkers on the other hand.....one person even told me that I'd better not be climbing anything but the stairs, and even then make sure I hold the railing...

I still feel strong when I am climbing, and am still having lots of fun, (even though I feel hideous in my full body harness and am only toproping...) and I will continue to do so as long as that is the case! It is good to see (read?) that there are other pregnant women out there continuing to engage in activities that are nothing but healthy for our babies!

To the OP - I can't imagine how frustrating those comments must have made you feel...I'm so sorry that happened to you, but so glad your still out climbing!


csproul


Nov 12, 2009, 1:27 PM
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erica wrote:
I am also a few days shy of 20 weeks, and have been amazed at the mix of reactions about my continuing to climb. From fellow climbers, it has been nothing but positive. From my coworkers on the other hand.....one person even told me that I'd better not be climbing anything but the stairs, and even then make sure I hold the railing...

I still feel strong when I am climbing, and am still having lots of fun, (even though I feel hideous in my full body harness and am only toproping...) and I will continue to do so as long as that is the case! It is good to see (read?) that there are other pregnant women out there continuing to engage in activities that are nothing but healthy for our babies!

To the OP - I can't imagine how frustrating those comments must have made you feel...I'm so sorry that happened to you, but so glad your still out climbing!
I was wondering why I hadn't seen you out leading recently! Yeah!


klopik


Nov 12, 2009, 4:22 PM
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Yeah, its really interesting just how much unwanted and unappreciated advice people give... seriously...
I had my belly rubbed once, and by a person I actually cannot stand personally (he is a client, however, so I have to work wtih him)
I felt so bad for my baby... I think he kind of hovered in there and threw up in his mouth a little bit :)

Here is to climbing chicks with baby bumps!

And I look sooooooooo silly in my full body harness :) All of my regular climbing partners are done making fun of me, but the looks I get in the locker room when I am changing are priceless :)


erica


Nov 12, 2009, 5:29 PM
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Even though the full body harness looks ridiculous, in a weird way, it makes me more confident - I think it maybe b/c when I'm in it I look obviously pregnant as opposed to just fat! (not to mention WAY more comfortable...)

As far as a few belly rubs amongst close friends, I'm okay with that - acquaintances, not so much, and total strangers - absolutely not!

Chris - its sad that it has been so long that we had to reconnect in the ladies forum on rc.com! Steve and I are hitting the New the weekend before Turkey Day if your up!


jeepnphreak


Nov 16, 2009, 9:34 AM
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Its interesting how many people think that being pregnant is a medical disability, and not a normal part of life. My wife (aka psychoherper posted a climbing prego a while ago) is 26 weeks along and still running laps of 5.9s on top rope. Iam proud of her and her willingness to keep doing what she loves, she steped back on how hard she climbs but thats fine.
So far most people that see us climbing have been supportive and amazed that my wife is still climbing. Granted that most that have made comments are moms them selves...

It gets me thinking...
If pregnancy is a medical disability, than how did our species survive for so many years in the wild before cities and hospitals, when there where still sabortooth cats and mammoth running around. You think people would have gone extinct if pregnancy was that disabling


lena_chita
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Nov 16, 2009, 10:55 AM
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jeepnphreak wrote:
Its interesting how many people think that being pregnant is a medical disability, and not a normal part of life.

...


It gets me thinking...
If pregnancy is a medical disability, than how did our species survive for so many years in the wild before cities and hospitals, when there where still sabortooth cats and mammoth running around. You think people would have gone extinct if pregnancy was that disabling

I wholeheartedly agree with the first part. But the second, while making for a good rhethoric, is really not correct.

What sort of attrition rate would you find acceptable? The answer to that question is very different now than it was in "those" times.


clee03m


Nov 17, 2009, 8:12 AM
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jeepnphreak wrote:
My wife (aka psychoherper posted a climbing prego a while ago) is 26 weeks along and still running laps of 5.9s on top rope.
NIIICE!

jeepnphreak wrote:
Granted that most that have made comments are moms them selves...
I find this interesting. I find this to be true also for comments regarding pregnancy and my decision to not change my last name. They both seem to really piss off some women, mainly the ones who stopped exercising/leading and ones who changed their names.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Nov 18, 2009, 5:04 AM
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jeepnphreak wrote:
Its interesting how many people think that being pregnant is a medical disability, and not a normal part of life. My wife (aka psychoherper posted a climbing prego a while ago) is 26 weeks along and still running laps of 5.9s on top rope. Iam proud of her and her willingness to keep doing what she loves, she steped back on how hard she climbs but thats fine.
So far most people that see us climbing have been supportive and amazed that my wife is still climbing. Granted that most that have made comments are moms them selves...

It gets me thinking...
If pregnancy is a medical disability, than how did our species survive for so many years in the wild before cities and hospitals, when there where still sabortooth cats and mammoth running around. You think people would have gone extinct if pregnancy was that disabling

Because the image of early humans grubbing it out in the muck is fiction. It is an image created by uptight European males projecting everything they shouldn't be onto "primative" peoples. People (sapiens) have always lived in cities, or at least towns of 30 adults, and we have always had good medicine. "Herbal" today may mean "flavored placebo", but, for example, opium and asprin are "herbal".

Early humans were the exact same as modern humans. Same wants, same needs, same desire to climb stuff, same annoying social habits. Like giving unwanted advice to pregnant women. Which I won't do in this case.

Now Ardipithicus (a whole genus before Homo), with the small canid teeth (pair bonding) and two legged walk (face-to-face sex and ability to carry food) didn't have the concern with head size and birth. It also pre-dated Smiladon fatalis (the most popular saber tooth cat via movies and one of the best named species) by about 3.4 million years. And was on a different continent.


lvpyne


Nov 18, 2009, 5:50 AM
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While I agree more or less with your sentiments in this post, the anthropologist in me is retching about the argument you used to make your point. Just a few points of clarification:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Because the image of early humans grubbing it out in the muck is fiction.
True.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
It is an image created by uptight European males projecting everything they shouldn't be onto "primative" peoples.
False. The intellectual history of "constructing" an identity of early hominins is incredibly complex and your statement is a total throwaway generalization. Although I think I understand what you're trying to say.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
People (sapiens) have always lived in cities, or at least towns of 30 adults,
False.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
and we have always had good medicine.
A completely non-definable statement. What is "good" medicine? What is its historical context? This type of statement is simply a form of backwards historical conjecture.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
"Herbal" today may mean "flavored placebo", but, for example, opium and asprin are "herbal".
True.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Early humans were the exact same as modern humans.
False. Although, again, I think I see your point and your point is correct. Artifacts associated with behaviors characteristic of "behavioral modernity" in Homo sapiens show up during the mid-late Pleistocene.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Same wants, same needs, same desire to climb stuff, same annoying social habits. Like giving unwanted advice to pregnant women. Which I won't do in this case.
Probably true. But total conjecture. Smile

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Now Ardipithicus (a whole genus before Homo), with the small canid teeth (pair bonding) and two legged walk (face-to-face sex and ability to carry food) didn't have the concern with head size and birth.
That interpretation that you presented about Ardi is just one of many. Certainly the inferences about the behavior have merit in paleoanthropology and based on paleoanthropological study (White's current article in Nature, for example), but using those inferences to construct a narrative showing the historical "validation" of a particular type of story about humanity (i.e. "Look, hominins, and thus humans, have a long history of this type of social organization, therefore this is what our story is "supposed" to look like") is making the same local fallacy of inference, analogy, and projection that you skewered "uptight European males projecting everything they shouldn't be onto "primative" peoples." (A side point, there are several genera in the hominin phylogenetic tree between Ardipithecus and Homo.)

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
It also pre-dated Smiladon fatalis (the most popular saber tooth cat via movies and one of the best named species) by about 3.4 million years. And was on a different continent.
True. Ardi predates Smilodon (btw, spelled with an "o"), but I'm not really sure what that has to do with your point? Although I agree it does have one of the best scientific names, ever.


lhwang


Nov 18, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
we have always had good medicine. "Herbal" today may mean "flavored placebo", but, for example, opium and asprin are "herbal".

Just to put this into perspective, the lifetime risk of maternal mortality in subsaharan Africa is 1 in 16 currently, and as high as in 1 in 7 in some countries. Meaning 1 in 7 women will die during pregnancy, childbirth or postpartum, and on top of that, twenty times more women are disabled/seriously injured. By comparison, in Ireland, where you have modern medicine, family planning, better hygiene and nutrition, the lifetime risk is 1 in 47,600. Before modern medicine, what would you have done for a life-threatening hemorrhage? An eclamptic seizure? Sepsis? Obstructed labour? Fourth degree tears?

I don't think pregnancy should be overmedicalised, and I don't think that pregnant women should be the recipients of unwanted advice. But I really think that the whole "childbirth/pregnancy is safe because it's natural" idea is delusional.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Nov 18, 2009, 7:34 PM
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lvpyne wrote:
While I agree more or less with your sentiments in this post, the anthropologist in me is retching about the argument you used to make your point. Just a few points of clarification:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Because the image of early humans grubbing it out in the muck is fiction.
True.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
It is an image created by uptight European males projecting everything they shouldn't be onto "primative" peoples.
False. The intellectual history of "constructing" an identity of early hominins is incredibly complex and your statement is a total throwaway generalization. Although I think I understand what you're trying to say.
RC.com = throwaway generalization
lvpyne wrote:

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
People (sapiens) have always lived in cities, or at least towns of 30 adults,
False.
Not exactly false (as I'm sure you know): http://www.bbsonline.org/...hive/bbs.dunbar.html

lvpyne wrote:

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
and we have always had good medicine.
A completely non-definable statement. What is "good" medicine? What is its historical context? This type of statement is simply a form of backwards historical conjecture.
RC.com = throwaway generalization
lvpyne wrote:

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
"Herbal" today may mean "flavored placebo", but, for example, opium and asprin are "herbal".
True.

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Early humans were the exact same as modern humans.
False. Although, again, I think I see your point and your point is correct. Artifacts associated with behaviors characteristic of "behavioral modernity" in Homo sapiens show up during the mid-late Pleistocene.
RC.com = throwaway generalization
lvpyne wrote:

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Same wants, same needs, same desire to climb stuff, same annoying social habits. Like giving unwanted advice to pregnant women. Which I won't do in this case.
Probably true. But total conjecture. Smile
RC.com = throwaway generalization
lvpyne wrote:

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Now Ardipithicus (a whole genus before Homo), with the small canid teeth (pair bonding) and two legged walk (face-to-face sex and ability to carry food) didn't have the concern with head size and birth.
That interpretation that you presented about Ardi is just one of many. Certainly the inferences about the behavior have merit in paleoanthropology and based on paleoanthropological study (White's current article in Nature, for example), but using those inferences to construct a narrative showing the historical "validation" of a particular type of story about humanity (i.e. "Look, hominins, and thus humans, have a long history of this type of social organization, therefore this is what our story is "supposed" to look like") is making the same local fallacy of inference, analogy, and projection that you skewered "uptight European males projecting everything they shouldn't be onto "primative" peoples." (A side point, there are several genera in the hominin phylogenetic tree between Ardipithecus and Homo.)

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
It also pre-dated Smiladon fatalis (the most popular saber tooth cat via movies and one of the best named species) by about 3.4 million years. And was on a different continent.
True. Ardi predates Smilodon (btw, spelled with an "o"), but I'm not really sure what that has to do with your point? Although I agree it does have one of the best scientific names, ever.

Yes, my spelling suks. Smilodon was refering to the "when there where still sabortooth cats and mammoth running around".

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