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Carnage
Jun 13, 2008, 7:19 PM
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when i was setting last week, i noticed myself making every hold a pinch or a side pull or gaston or something like that, never pull straight down. I was doing this to make the route more difficult and be more interesting than a ladder.
i noticed that my variety is waning though.
so im curious, what kind of moves do you like to do. next route i put up is gonna have a bump and maybe a mantle, but im looking for suggestions of obscure fun moves that i can do inside.
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rockclimbergabor
Jun 13, 2008, 7:33 PM
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some of my favorites:
rose moves are always fun. for example, put a right hand sidepull and then cross to a left hand pocket like 2 feet away at the same height, then unroll to another hold out right. requires power and balance to do these moves correctly.
I also like to simulate tufa moves in the gym. example - put a left hand sidepull, then like 3 feet up, a vertical pinch, then another 2 feet up another vertical pinch, then unroll out left to a pocket or something. If set correctly, this forces the climber to cross to the first pinch by turning their hips right, then changing positions and turning hips left to go to the next one, then changing hip position again to unroll out left.
a final cool sequence that i like to set i call the "dreamtime" sequence. Example - off a left hand sidepull, make a big right hand move to a sloper straight up, bump left hand out left but at same level to an undercling, cross right hand again to another sloper, then jump left hand to a jug. If you dont understand then watch a video of dreamtime (v&14 in switzerland)
all cool sequences, but most of them usually only work on steep walls
(This post was edited by rockclimbergabor on Jun 13, 2008, 7:37 PM)
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petsfed
Jun 13, 2008, 8:00 PM
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Carnage wrote: when i was setting last week, i noticed myself making every hold a pinch or a side pull or gaston or something like that, never pull straight down. I was doing this to make the route more difficult and be more interesting than a ladder. i noticed that my variety is waning though. so im curious, what kind of moves do you like to do. next route i put up is gonna have a bump and maybe a mantle, but im looking for suggestions of obscure fun moves that i can do inside.
When I feel like I'm running out of ideas, I return to the time tested tactic of making sure no holds point up, so if nothing else, it forces you to find the correct body position to use each one. The other trick is to set problems that are impossible (or at least very difficult) to power through. Sometimes I'll see a couple of holds on the wall and get inspired, sometimes I have to think back to problems I've done on real rock.
Just be creative. My best problems tend to be the easier ones that still feature hard holds. The climber just has to figure out the proper position to hold on from.
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balbus
Jun 13, 2008, 10:34 PM
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another option is to just put a bunch of holds in one section of the wall, and get a few people to start taking turns. play add on, maybe something good could come from it. mainly, just have some fun with all the holds up, and if you like any, tape them up.
I hope this helps.
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colatownkid
Jun 14, 2008, 1:19 AM
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occasionally if i'm running out of ideas i'll make a "theme" route to train a specific hold type. all (mostly--"all" is a little extreme) pinches, slopers, pockets, etc.
i also like to set a "one-sided" section of a route. for example, i'll put up four or five holds on the right-hand side and only one or two holds high on the left. typically this forces the climber to bump up their feet on the right side or execute some layback moves and switch their feet a lot on the right.
another one i recently put up that i like was three holds all pretty much in a vertical line. the bottom one is a foot. the middle one is a layback on the left hand. the top one is a gaston for the right hand. the climber lays back on the left hand while counter pressuring with the left foot. they must then stand on the left foot, back flag the right foot out to the left side, grab the gaston with the right hand, and slowly transition into a layback. it really works the balance.
i suppose the short version of the above would be to say that if i can't think of anything else, i set routes that force good footwork/technique.
(This post was edited by colatownkid on Jun 14, 2008, 3:09 AM)
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crazy_fingers84
Jun 14, 2008, 1:34 AM
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well. . . i face the same problem at my gym. i work at my college gym, and since it is summer, i am the only one on staff f. i have been trying to stay sane sitting at our wall for 7 hours a day, but i am finding it difficult. i have been setting like crazy lately.
today i set a route that was all stemming. fortunately, or unfortunately, the wall i work at is an entreprise wall with real rock features (similar to nicros art walls) that allows me to do some cool stuff like that. if you have something like this to work with, i suggest using natural features to spice it up.
if you dont have natural features to work with, try setting some routes that require specific sequences. this takes a little work, but i find people tend to enjoy routes that they have to think about. i always set for a specific sequence even when the route is really easy (5.7s).
i also like to set routes that require a lot of balance. the people at my gym tend to like routes that have big moves to good holds. . . go figure. so i use underclings before moves that require you to get your feet up really high. always keep the short people in mind. also, hand foot/heel matches are sometimes fun. you could also set some layback moves off a few sidepulls. try to keep those gym rats guessing. . .
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matterunomama
Jun 22, 2008, 3:33 PM
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Some of my favorite routes involve a an arch about 6 feet wide. At some point you have to bridge across the arch then out and up.
Currently that involves one route with a crucifix move-matching on a big hold you must let go with one hand to grab the other side, which cuts your feet loose, then you swing them across and pop out the arch and work out your feet. Its a 5.9.
The other side of the arch has a 5.10 that crosses the arch to a sloper that you have to grab exactly right to stay on, then you are solid to move your other hand and feet. The moves are not dynos, but they take faith and commitment, frustrate you until you get them and then are really physically satisfying (and impressive) to do.
There are also some excellent routes that use features, not holds, that make you remember "wall is on". One is in a corner where the wall ends, so there is a small pipe protection turn. The route requires using that corner; until you see to do that it is impossible).
Aretes,corners and chimney will have routes where you run out of hands and have to palm the wall (inside or out) or very few feet with decent hands. Being small, middle-aged and female I favor these or finely balanced routes over crimpy tendon poppers or shoulder twinging gastons. They work as well for my tall strong husband as they do for me.
I don't know what features your gym has..interestingly, the head route setter has often said he prefers just old-style flat walls with a few angles.
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dreday3000
Jun 22, 2008, 3:49 PM
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I wanna climb at your gym!
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matterunomama
Jun 23, 2008, 10:57 PM
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dreday3000 wrote: I wanna climb at your gym!
It is good, its The Rock Club in New Rochelle NY.
No matter what you have for walls, its the setters that make the routes interesting. Its Obe Carrion, the head route setter, who said he would just as soon have flatter more angulated walls, but I still see him up the giant lead arch...maybe some day I will get up there, with the 12s and 13s....in my dreams
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ClimbSoHigh
Oct 22, 2008, 1:06 PM
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haha that is really funny. I was reading your discription of the gym and i was thinking that it sounded a lot like TRC in NY. turns out I was right!!! Bouldering and the lead arch are very sick!!!!
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cchildre
Oct 22, 2008, 3:15 PM
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It can be hard to command, but a required heel hook usually throws gym climbers for a loop, and make some of my favorite movements. My buddy put up a route he tried this feature, but most just powered through instead of using the less strenious heel hook move.
The better routes I have been on indoors have really reminded me of actual routes. I rarely climb routes set above or at the limit of the setter, they usually ask for awkward movement, but that is only from my brief experience indoors.
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knieveltech
Oct 22, 2008, 3:17 PM
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If you have a corner to work with rig a climb where 80% of the holds require pushing/oppositional forces. That kinda stuff doesn't crop up in the gym real often.
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Joshua007
Nov 18, 2009, 2:50 PM
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Two problems I see in our gym.
1.) We can't use chalk, only the shitty eco-balls from Metolious. You'd be surprised how slick things get. This really prevents us from using a majority of the holds in any position but 'up'.
2.) Tracking = bordem!!!
Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them.
I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe.
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johnwesely
Nov 18, 2009, 3:31 PM
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Flat walls are way easier to set for and way better for training.
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johnwesely
Nov 18, 2009, 3:32 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: 2.) Tracking = bordem!!! Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them. I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe.
If you do that, your problems will suck big time.
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petsfed
Nov 18, 2009, 3:40 PM
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knieveltech wrote: If you have a corner to work with rig a climb where 80% of the holds require pushing/oppositional forces. That kinda stuff doesn't crop up in the gym real often.
Except in the gym I work at.
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subantz
Nov 18, 2009, 4:40 PM
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johnwesely wrote: Joshua007 wrote: 2.) Tracking = bordem!!! Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them. I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe. If you do that, your problems will suck big time.
Seconded, you need to figure out how to set better routes.
More seat time sucker more seat time. You also need a better selection of holds, Turd burglar!
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synrock
Nov 18, 2009, 4:46 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: Two problems I see in our gym. 1.) We can't use chalk, only the shitty eco-balls from Metolious. You'd be surprised how slick things get. This really prevents us from using a majority of the holds in any position but 'up'. 2.) Tracking = bordem!!! Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them. I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe.
You could use some Rockpods. Should solve all the problems you listed. Message me and I'll send you enough samples for a route.
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sungam
Nov 18, 2009, 5:31 PM
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synrock wrote: Joshua007 wrote: Two problems I see in our gym. 1.) We can't use chalk, only the shitty eco-balls from Metolious. You'd be surprised how slick things get. This really prevents us from using a majority of the holds in any position but 'up'. 2.) Tracking = bordem!!! Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them. I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe. You could use some Rockpods. Should solve all the problems you listed. Message me and I'll send you enough samples for a route.
Get those samples!
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cracklover
Nov 18, 2009, 5:50 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: Two problems I see in our gym. 1.) We can't use chalk, only the shitty eco-balls from Metolious. You'd be surprised how slick things get. This really prevents us from using a majority of the holds in any position but 'up'. 2.) Tracking = bordem!!! Any hand hold in our gym is a uber good foot hold, literally ANY hold. Using the same holds for feet just doesn't yield any fun. We can't use screw-ons here so I've started using bolts with no holds on them. I would like to know if anyone sets hands & feet totally separate. Meaning you have a route for hands and one for feet. All of our hand holds are rather large (lame wall management) and it's hard to set past 5.10/V4 so I'm looking at not-so-common alternatives maybe.
Hmm... that's hard to believe. You have *no* holds that have a sharp angle on one side, while the other side tapers into the wall? This is the standard crimper, and when placed with the sharp edge on the side, or facing slightly down, makes a fantastic sidepull, but an absolutely terrible foothold.
And once the angle gets overhanging, even pretty okay handholds can be brutal for your feet.
I'm sorry, I'm just having a really hard time believing your problem.
I once set at a gym where many of the holds were real rock holds, like this:
(which is probably way worse than the holds you have for forcing challenging footwork)
I still had no problem setting problems that were technically challenging on a dead-vertical face.
GO
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Joshua007
Nov 18, 2009, 6:25 PM
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Haha, no need for slapping the holds are on the way to my house asap it sounds like.
Where is this "no holds but jugs" idea coming from? We have tons of holds but can't use chalk so it does limit some things. We have sets of the smaller Nicros and Metolius and the rest are what look to be stolen from McDonald's playground (Entreprises brand though). Here's the link to our school wall on the EP site: http://www.epusa.com/installation.php?id=482 check it.
There's a threshold between being a really good crimp and being bad enough you have to focus on feet, not having chalk seems to now allow the later. Once holds get into that "i'm not sure that'll go" angle, you can damn well forget it without chalk. That's my delima is there's no medium/training level. It's either really easy or past the point of eco-ball use. I'm thinking the liquid chalk may help but I honestly want to realize that I'm not much of a setter, I need help and to make what we have work! I'm sure it's possible to set good routes/problems but it's a big learning curve for me I guess.
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cracklover
Nov 18, 2009, 6:59 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: Once holds get into that "i'm not sure that'll go" angle, you can damn well forget it without chalk. That's my delima is there's no medium/training level. It's either really easy or past the point of eco-ball use.
This is totally a false dilemma. As I said before, many holds have an orientation in which they're an excellent hand hold, but a terrible foothold. You can accentuate this by setting the route such that the climber's body position is such that it's difficult to get weight over their feet if they try to place their foot on the hold you want them to avoid.
Anyway, an example: Imagine any of these holds, oriented such that the edge is facing away from the climber's body. It becomes an excellent side-pull, but a nearly useless foothold, forcing the climber to use another (perhaps smaller) hold which you have placed such that it is inferior to the side-pull crimp for hands, but once the climber is at higher, is a much better foothold.
GO
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sungam
Nov 18, 2009, 8:20 PM
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That looks like a really good wall. Shitty about the chalk. Get one of the costumers to start a petition going for chalk (chalk balls at least).
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bill413
Nov 18, 2009, 9:07 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: There's a threshold between being a really good crimp and being bad enough you have to focus on feet, not having chalk seems to now allow the later. Once holds get into that "i'm not sure that'll go" angle, you can damn well forget it without chalk. That's my delima is there's no medium/training level. It's either really easy or past the point of eco-ball use.
Most of the reliance on chalk seems to be psychological. I have been on very few routes where chalk was truly necessary. If it is, it tends to be more needed for open handed, frictional holding than for crimping (IMO).
Also, overchalking puts a friable layer between your hand and the hold. I fail to see how that can increase your holding power - rather, it will reduce it (why else do people use toothbrushes on holds with chalk?).
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colatownkid
Nov 18, 2009, 9:46 PM
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Joshua007 wrote: Haha, no need for slapping the holds are on the way to my house asap it sounds like. Where is this "no holds but jugs" idea coming from? We have tons of holds but can't use chalk so it does limit some things. We have sets of the smaller Nicros and Metolius and the rest are what look to be stolen from McDonald's playground (Entreprises brand though). Here's the link to our school wall on the EP site: http://www.epusa.com/installation.php?id=482 check it. There's a threshold between being a really good crimp and being bad enough you have to focus on feet, not having chalk seems to now allow the later. Once holds get into that "i'm not sure that'll go" angle, you can damn well forget it without chalk. That's my delima is there's no medium/training level. It's either really easy or past the point of eco-ball use. I'm thinking the liquid chalk may help but I honestly want to realize that I'm not much of a setter, I need help and to make what we have work! I'm sure it's possible to set good routes/problems but it's a big learning curve for me I guess.
i'm with bill413 on the chalk issue. the real problem is probably that the holds are very greasy. chalk may help this to some degree, but the better solution is probably to clean the holds. when was the last time your holds were cleaned?
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