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Durin


Nov 30, 2009, 4:07 PM
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starting pin & hook rack
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So, I've got a reasonable clean aid rack... recently acquired a few hooks. I've got the two middle sizes of cam hooks, a cliffhanger and a talon.

Currently I'm trying to get a hammer, and I have a funking device.

What's a good place to start if I want to do a route like the Shield?

Angles, LA's, KB's, bugs, peckers, rurps... what sizes, and how many? Should I just try to get a spattering?

How about copperheads? Circleheads?


skiclimb


Nov 30, 2009, 4:46 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Where are you climbing now? Usually can't go wrong with a few short thin arrows. and some short bugaboos.

The shield doesn't require a ton of iron.. but it is good to have a few specialty pieces .. Sawed baby angles for instance. Even a couple sawed 1 inchers.

I did place a couple heads along the way.


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Nov 30, 2009, 4:49 PM)


scottydo


Dec 1, 2009, 11:52 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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try posting this question up over on bigwalls.com. those guys should be able to answer you question pretty acurately as I know there's a few folks over there that have done the Sheild as well.


subantz


Dec 2, 2009, 8:29 AM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Whats worse than a sport climber.
A AID CLIMBER...
Get a fi-fi hook dummy.
A big hammer
A Hilti power drill.
A LIFE


tomtom


Dec 2, 2009, 8:44 AM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Guidebooks will list suggested pin racks with the topo.

The Supertopo guides are pretty good.

http://www.supertopo.com/...semite/bigwalls.html




rock_fencer


Dec 2, 2009, 8:45 AM
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Re: [subantz] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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now what do you suggest to do if you want to climb big walls but cant free upwards of 5.12 on gear. just bolt a ladder up the whole face on parts you cant climb?

i used to think aid climbing was boring as well, but recently found out that its indeed very engaging. A hell of a lot more than sport climbing ever was to me.

to each his own though.


subantz


Dec 2, 2009, 8:56 AM
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Re: [rock_fencer] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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rock_fencer wrote:
just bolt a ladder up the whole face on parts you cant climb?quote]

Well yes. How else are those bolts going to get there?


Partner cracklover


Dec 2, 2009, 9:51 AM
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Re: [rock_fencer] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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rock_fencer wrote:
now what do you suggest to do if you want to climb big walls but cant free upwards of 5.12 on gear. just bolt a ladder up the whole face on parts you cant climb?

i used to think aid climbing was boring as well, but recently found out that its indeed very engaging. A hell of a lot more than sport climbing ever was to me.

to each his own though.

Just ignore him. Everyone else does. Eventually he'll probably go away. Or if ignoring him is too hard, get JT512's killfile.

GO


subantz


Dec 2, 2009, 10:29 AM
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Re: [cracklover] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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*plonk*


Partner pbcowboy77


Dec 4, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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It all really depends on the route you want to do. I know this isn't really a answer but it's the best I can do. Start by picking a route and pick up what is in the gear list from the topo. Also find some trip reports frm the route and see if you can shed some of the iron. I always look at what people write up on Supertopo under the route section and see if I can leave something on the ground.


Also Tomahawks are real nice. You can hand place the left and right ones and not have to break out the hammer.
You can get them herehttp://www.mountaingear.com/...G/item/114591/N/1045


Also Scottydo's right, head over to...

http://www.bigwalls.net/forum2/
There are some great people there that will steer you in the right direction. More experience about walls there than here, and they are willing to share. Some real old schoolers over there.

I just looked at The Shield topo and I know I didn't take that much iron up, but I bailed before we even broke out the hammer...


If your looking to buy pins, most of the time you can avoid buying them new. Keep a eye out on all the web sites for people getting rid of pins and aid gear. Also watch Ebay. I've got most of my pin rack off of Ebay, I just don't ever bid more than 75% of the cost new. I like to keep it between 5 and 7 dollars per pin...
You can also find hooks on Ebay too.

Hope this helped.


shimanilami


Dec 4, 2009, 1:43 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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I recommend that you get the Supertopo guide. Its rack recommendations are surprisingly accurate.

For most gear, I buy sets at a time - e.g. a set of nuts, a set of small cams, a set of draws, etc. This ensures that I've got my ranges covered. But with pins, I only buy and carry exactly what I'm going to need. They're too heavy, IMO, to carry extras.


Partner pbcowboy77


Dec 4, 2009, 5:32 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
I recommend that you get the Supertopo guide. Its rack recommendations are surprisingly accurate.

For most gear, I buy sets at a time - e.g. a set of nuts, a set of small cams, a set of draws, etc. This ensures that I've got my ranges covered. But with pins, I only buy and carry exactly what I'm going to need. They're too heavy, IMO, to carry extras.


Don't want to start a argument but I have to disagree about going off the Supertopo only for the rack. I find that they seem to be a bit heavy on the iron. I would do more research as I said, check out trip reports, and such. When you are solid o what route you want to do ask around on bigwalls.net. Stuff like that. Even terragalleria.com has some good tr's and rack beta for the Valley. If you look at some of the El Cap routes in super topo, you'll be amazed at how many pins are in the gear list and read what people use up on the route. Take Zodiac for example... 30 pins! No way I'm taking 30 pins up a route like that, not even if they cleaned all the fixed gear again. Even The trip... 21 pins, seems a lot to me even though I haven't done it. And NNL calls for 13 LA's. That's a bit much...


Like I said, I don't want a battle, but I never go with just the Super Topo. It's a good starting point, but do some more research...


Zac


tomtom


Dec 5, 2009, 9:12 AM
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Re: [pbcowboy77] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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pbcowboy77 wrote:
Don't want to start a argument but I have to disagree about going off the Supertopo only for the rack.

No one suggested going off the Supertopo *only* for the rack.


shimanilami


Dec 16, 2009, 9:43 AM
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Re: [pbcowboy77] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Generally speaking, you're right about the ST guide being "heavy on the iron". However, I think this is primarily due to the fact that most of the routes in the ST guide are trade routes with tons of fixed gear. Thus, most of the iron is already there.

I had the good fortune of being the second party up Zodiac after Ivo, Dean and Ammon did their big clean-up. There were 3 fixed pieces on the entire thing. I used every piece of iron the ST guide recommended. No more. No less. It was harder than I expected, but also more fun than I expected. Unfortunately, I hear that it's as fixed up now as it was before the clean up. Too bad!

My point is that the gear in the ST topos will certainly get you up your route. Most of the iron may sit in the bottom of the bag and never get pulled out, but if you're the conservative type, you may appreciate the assurance that you've got everything you need.

EDIT - A good case in point, I did the Trip last year clean. We didn't place a single pin or head, and carried >10 lbs of iron up that thing for no good reason (other than "insurance").


(This post was edited by shimanilami on Dec 16, 2009, 9:46 AM)


rock_fencer


Dec 16, 2009, 10:46 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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im curious as to why so much fixed gear gets left behind in aid? I can understand bashees but nuts and cams should be removable almost all the time. Pitons never hammered one in so dont know. Is it people just giving up too soon to clean up and save time on the wall, or a genuine issue of fixed pieces that cannot be removed?

cheers
T


shimanilami


Dec 16, 2009, 11:07 AM
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Re: [rock_fencer] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Certainly, the majority of pins could be removed. With that said, I usually don't remove pins I didn't place. I guess I'm just lazy and don't want to carry any more iron than I've already got.

P5 of the Trip, for example, was supposed to be the shite, requiring hooks, tons of tiny cams, etc. But it was fixed to death. I was totally bummed. I yelled down to my partner to get the hammer out, 'cuz he could booty at least a dozen pins that didn't need to be there. But he's even lazier than me, and didn't bother.

I suppose that if someone was making a free attempt, they might want some of the bomber pins to remain for pro. On the flip side, they might want to pull fixed pins because they need the holds. I experienced this last year on Mescalito, when I passed Tommy Caldwell who was working to free the route. His fingers = my cam hooks! Spicy fucking leads, dude! Incredible!

EDIT - as for fixed nuts and cams, if I can get it out, then it's booty for sure. I think most aid climbers do the same thing.


(This post was edited by shimanilami on Dec 16, 2009, 11:12 AM)


rock_fencer


Dec 16, 2009, 12:21 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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but why does it get over pinned is more my angle?

havent done any bigwalls myself so im just wondering, what leads a nice thin tips crack to become a pin ladder?


avalon420


Jan 1, 2010, 3:54 PM
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Re: [rock_fencer] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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rock_fencer wrote:
but why does it get over pinned is more my angle?

havent done any bigwalls myself so im just wondering, what leads a nice thin tips crack to become a pin ladder?
I find that AID climbers (this IS the aid forum right?) typically turn barely climbable tips crack in to easy pin ladders(bashing on my own kind, I know, but cam hooks would be the more astetic way in most cases, or just free the fukr up)And on another note, I say leave the pins fixed (North Carolina aid ethics), so that the Hubbers dont stop by and free up the majority of Looking Glass' north face (pin scars make GREAT hand holds).


dugl33


Jan 1, 2010, 5:20 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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For what its worth the mountain shop in yosemite valley carries an extensive selection of gear, including pins, hooks, copperheads, rivet hangers, blah blah blah...

You can always just show up, ask around, and buy your pins there. Or buy some euro's pin rack for half price as they rush off to catch their flight home...


quiteatingmysteak


Jan 1, 2010, 10:12 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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http://www.supertopo.com/...igwalls.html#aidrack


tadaaaa


also, you are named after a dwarf. sexxy!


majid_sabet


Jan 1, 2010, 10:23 PM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Today's climbers are so puss* and dysfunctional that if you took them all to 1950s or 60s (where they had no topos) they would be able to get off the fuc*ing ground on their own.

topos for this


topos for that


bunch of handicaps


avalon420


Jan 2, 2010, 3:17 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
Today's climbers are so puss* and dysfunctional that if you took them all to 1950s or 60s (where they had no topos) they would be able to get off the fuc*ing ground on their own.

topos for this


topos for that


bunch of handicaps
hahahahahahahaWink


phang_nga


Feb 4, 2010, 2:54 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
Today's climbers are so puss* and dysfunctional that if you took them all to 1950s or 60s (where they had no topos) they would be able to get off the fuc*ing ground on their own.

topos for this

topos for that

bunch of handicaps

Hmm, on your bio it says you're a gym climber and a top-roper... you're pretty (negatively) opinionated for such an amateur. Sly


Partner euroford


Feb 12, 2010, 6:44 AM
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Re: [Durin] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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Durin wrote:
So, I've got a reasonable clean aid rack... recently acquired a few hooks. I've got the two middle sizes of cam hooks, a cliffhanger and a talon.

Currently I'm trying to get a hammer, and I have a funking device.

What's a good place to start if I want to do a route like the Shield?

Angles, LA's, KB's, bugs, peckers, rurps... what sizes, and how many? Should I just try to get a spattering?

How about copperheads? Circleheads?

to give you a real answer:

you don't need any pitons. finish your hook collection, i would suggest at minimum 2 x bd talons, 2 x bd grappling hooks and 2 x each of small and medium leeper cam hooks.

then go scare the living crap out of yourself on a couple of C3 walls, leave the hammer AT HOME.

if you don't already have them, i'd also highly suggest a set of ballnuts or two and a crapload of tiny tiny wires.

after doing that sort of thing you'll probably know if doing a nailing wall is really for you or not, and you'll also probably be able to really figure out the piton rack situation without consulting das interwebs.

pins are a good way to turn a C3 pitch into an A1 pitch, though unfortunately for the aspiring nailer this qualifies as epic douchbagery and won't make you any friends. you'll feel allot better about yourself if INSTEAD you look at a A3 knifeblade crack and figure out a way to do it WITHOUT pins. then your a badass.

the best way to do this, is to just not have any pins or a hammer with you, then your only option is send or bail and you won't be tempted to wimp out and nail the poor crack into submission.

besides, who the hell wants to carry an extra 30 pounds of pins and crap?

okay, some people do, super badasses who are climbing REAL A4-A5 routes thats who, and they aren't asking for pin rack recommendations on rc.com.


(This post was edited by euroford on Feb 12, 2010, 6:53 AM)


rock_fencer


Feb 12, 2010, 8:06 AM
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Re: [euroford] starting pin & hook rack [In reply to]
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How many of you have hand placed peckers/tomahawks when clean aiding?

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