WTF were they using for an anchor.

One bolt in supposedly poor rock.

There was a thread on this already but I can't find it with the magnificent search function. Sorry.

I bet the so called rescuers in this case have very limited caving experience, if any at all.

... they are going to close off the whole cave instead of trying a recovery.

Unfortunately, many rescue ops are run by the governmental agencies whose jurisdiction they happen to fall under. When this involves technical climbing or knowledge, these locals will forsake intelligence in favor of who has shown up for the latest training exercise.

Think of your local fire department. They will take anyone as a volunteer or even paid employee if they are fanatic. This does not make them qualified. Shit, I know multiple idiots who I would not trust to lick a stamp who would abandon a live child birth for the opportunity to run their sirens and watch someone elses life go up in smoke.

I bet the so called rescuers in this case have very limited caving experience, if any at all.

estimated 5,000 cavers who cavort in the cavern each year.

For more than four decades after its discovery in 1960, the cave was open to any and all comers,

[closed...reopened]safety equipment was required, and the entrance was gated and locked to control access

Grotto running the show, the cave was never safer, or, as it turned out, more deadly. Jones was Nutty Putty's first victim

This is true. Being a volunteer firefighter, i get to see what the standard is for rope rescue training. Pretty lacking all around. The equipment used by a lot of these departments is pretty old as well. Lots of ancient gear... They are all still sporting figure eight belay devices, rappel racks, and ascenders from the middle ages. I think that most fd's would be able to execute an easier vertical rescue... it just might take them a couple days to get their shit together.

We're talking about an incident in a locale where there are excellent, highly trained high angle and cave SAR units.

multiple idiots who I would not trust to lick a stamp who would abandon a live child birth for the opportunity to run their sirens and watch someone elses life go up in smoke.

I'm surprised that we express no concern over a resource with that sort of utilization being closed after one death. It is a tragic accident, and made more horrifying by his almost rescue. But, should the cave be shut down?

I bet the so called rescuers in this case have very limited caving experience, if any at all.

Hi everyone. Bonny and I spent all day yesterday at this rescue now turned recovery. As you can tell from the news, it was a frustrating, emotionally taxing ordeal for all involved.

I am not an official spokesperson for the rescue, nor a member of the command team, so my comments should be taken just as the impressions of one of the team members.

I was in the cave for about 12 hours yesterday as part of the effort. There were many ups and downs, a lot of heroic effort, and much determination. I would like to commend the sherriffs, fire teams, and county SAR for working so well with the cavers that were there. Cavers were recognized as vital, integral members of the team. Only small cavers could actually get near John. He got himself into a truly horrible situation, and not even everyone's best effort was enough to free him.

The press coverage has been very accurate, especially considering that they could not see really any of what was going on. I would like to clear up one thing however. Several news outlets have reported that John was "free" and then the rigging failed, sending him back to where he started. This is incorrect. When the redirect popped, John was still several hours from being "free". I estimate he was probably 2 hours of hauling and squeezing from where he would have been able to sit up. The haul systems ran through a twisting passage, requiring pulleyed redirects at each corner, four in all. As far as I can tell, the last one was set up on a natural anchor. It was very near the patient, one bend beyond where I could fit. I believe it was the anchor itself that blew, not the rope or cord as reported. The rescuer was actually hit in the face with two rescue pulleys and two carabiners.

While this setback was definitely the turning point of the rescue, John probably lost about two feet of progress as a result. Rescuers had already moved him a ways up the passage in the 15 or so hours before this. He was still a long way from being free, even without the blowout. Once the rigging was rebuilt with better anchors, by this time John was too exhausted to help us, rendering the setup useless. We were hauling him into a tight spot, with only his feet visible. He was head-down for 24 hours, with no way to turn him, and the clock beat us.

Thanks Marc, that is one of the comments that I was referring to. I am amazed at the lack of decency here when it comes to making judgments. Instead of talking shit, go out and do this work yourselves. At least the energy you expend will be in a positive direction.

I am tired of judgmental idiots, doing nothing to better the world, complaining of work done by others, usually volunteer and skilled, as being insufficient or poor. I'm throwing down the gauntlet here. Instead of complain, do. Train others to do. Give instead of take. If you have no skill, carry in food or water to those that do.

I know thread drift, and expecting a little too much from the crew that won't even search a little before commenting. Rant over.

Bob

We're talking about an incident in a locale where there are excellent, highly trained high angle and cave SAR units.