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Myxomatosis
Dec 21, 2009, 2:18 PM
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Registered: Jun 12, 2007
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I know, I know, another stupid newbie here... well Alpine newbie with no idea about gear. I do think I am owed one of these threads as I have answered so many 
I've some how gotten myself into a Mountaineering guide/Climbing Guide course here in NZ. I've mainly got in on my climbing abilities as I have never been up a mountain other than to snowboard once 
Just wondering about shoes and jacket (well clothing)
I think we will be tackling some alpine peaks... in snow conditions.
Jacket
Ive looked at the North Face Shaka jacket... Its got the dual layer system, is this any good? Is this a good all round jacket or is it just for serious alpine conditions? Its quite expensive, can anyone suggest something similar.. I see there is a O Research Trio jacket also dual layer but a bit cheaper.
What kind of layer do people wear under the jacket? Maybe a Fleece or just straight thermals?
Shoes
Ive done some research into the shoes, soft shoes better for tramping and harder shoes better to fit crampons for snow... am I on the right track? The key thing is to get the size that fits right?
I have a pair of 5.10 camp fours, which I could use for tramping so looking at a pair more alpine than tramping. My feet probably aren't used to wearing big boots, so a good beginner mid to upper range I think would suit me best... is this true?
I have quite a wide foot and most people say Sportiva and Scrapa are more suited to narrow feet... can anyone give me a few more brands to look at? We don't get many brands here in NZ 
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kheegster
Dec 22, 2009, 3:18 AM
Post #2 of 14
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Registered: May 14, 2009
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Myxomatosis wrote: I know, I know, another stupid newbie here... well Alpine newbie with no idea about gear. I do think I am owed one of these threads as I have answered so many I've some how gotten myself into a Mountaineering guide/Climbing Guide course here in NZ. I've mainly got in on my climbing abilities as I have never been up a mountain other than to snowboard once Just wondering about shoes and jacket (well clothing) I think we will be tackling some alpine peaks... in snow conditions. Jacket Ive looked at the North Face Shaka jacket... Its got the dual layer system, is this any good? Is this a good all round jacket or is it just for serious alpine conditions? Its quite expensive, can anyone suggest something similar.. I see there is a O Research Trio jacket also dual layer but a bit cheaper. What kind of layer do people wear under the jacket? Maybe a Fleece or just straight thermals?
Those jackets are fine for wearing around town but not suited for the alpine environment.
The usual clothing system for alpinism is to have a breathable 'movement' layer that you can wear while maintaining high aerobic output without overheating/sweating. This usually comprises of base layers + softshell. A GoreTex hardshell can be added on top of this if weather is really bad. While belaying or resting, you'll need a warm puffy belay jacket that you can throw on top of everything else, with a hood that fits over your helmet. For this, check out the Patagonia DAS parka or the belay jackets by Wild Things or Rab.
In reply to: Shoes Ive done some research into the shoes, soft shoes better for tramping and harder shoes better to fit crampons for snow... am I on the right track? The key thing is to get the size that fits right? I have a pair of 5.10 camp fours, which I could use for tramping so looking at a pair more alpine than tramping. My feet probably aren't used to wearing big boots, so a good beginner mid to upper range I think would suit me best... is this true? I have quite a wide foot and most people say Sportiva and Scrapa are more suited to narrow feet... can anyone give me a few more brands to look at? We don't get many brands here in NZ
You'll get used to the 'big boots' soon enough, most important thing is to get a pair that is suitable :). Assuming you're doing summer mountaineering in the Southern Alps, you probably don't need huge double boots meant for Denali or the Himalayas. A single leather boot will probably be sufficient. Sportiva and Scarpa offer the largest selection of boots (in the US at least) but some other brands to look at are Asolo, Vasque, Lowa and Millet.
Sounds like you have to learn about mountaineering. You should check out
Andy Kirkpatrick's website: www.psychovertical.com which has a wealth of info on mountaineering gear.
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Myxomatosis
Dec 22, 2009, 4:53 AM
Post #3 of 14
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Registered: Jun 12, 2007
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Hmmm... Ok a little more lost and a little more informed Read most of psycho vertical gear section
I have a Mount Equip down jacket (no hood, lightweight one, XERO I think)... Can I use this as a layer? Then get a storm layer and a good soft shell I can wear 90% of the time...
Maybe something like this
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/...shield_jacket---513/
We have a really poor choice of boots here. Only found three types of Sportiva's, no scarpa's and a few Asolo models sold here  Will have to go try on some Sportiva's with fingers crossed...
We have two trips during winter next year... 
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malcolm777b
Dec 22, 2009, 5:14 AM
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I agree with the layering system put out in the previous post, but would like to add one thing. For the base layer, I've found light merino wool to be the best long underwear. It doesn't dry quite as quickly as poly, but keeps you warmer when not moving, and cool when moving. And the real benefit is it doesn't stink after 2-3 days of wearing (and doesn't hold the perma-stench that the synthetics do).
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Myxomatosis
Dec 22, 2009, 8:45 AM
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Ive been talking to my alpine mate and he has pointed me in the right direction.
Unfortunately most of the jackets I want to use... aren't sold in NZ.. and the boot range... well... most websites list the same six boots. *sigh*
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xtrmecat
Dec 22, 2009, 3:46 PM
Post #6 of 14
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malcolm777b wrote: I agree with the layering system put out in the previous post, but would like to add one thing. For the base layer, I've found light merino wool to be the best long underwear. It doesn't dry quite as quickly as poly, but keeps you warmer when not moving, and cool when moving. And the real benefit is it doesn't stink after 2-3 days of wearing (and doesn't hold the perma-stench that the synthetics do).
Side trip here, sorry about the hijack. Malcolm777, I agree with all the points you make but I have a solution for one of them. The permastench in poly is easier than you think to get rid of. Mine are good for around a week out and then take on my odor semi permanent, just like everyone else. I don't know where you are from, but a good sporting goods store that sells hunting wares has what a person needs to wipe the permastench out with one washing. I use a product that bowhunters use to remove the human scent from their clothing. Scent-A-Way detergent made by Hunters Specialties.
One washing removes what 20 washing with other detergents cannot. Phosphate free, biodegradable, won't kill the color, blah blah, blah. Ive even used it on all my better fabrics, including my Merino with great results. Thought you'd like to know.
Bob
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kheegster
Dec 22, 2009, 9:41 PM
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Registered: May 14, 2009
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You shouldn't take off your helmet in the middle of a climb to put on/take off hats (I did so at 13,000 ft on Mt. Rainier, and the helmet slipped my grasp...we watched it tumble down the mountain for at least a minute before it disappeared out of sight). So you should have hoods on all your outer layers (soft shell, hard shell, belay parka).
If you're climbing during winter then you'll need beefier boots, although dunno how cold winter in the Southern Alps gets...
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mattsheat
Dec 24, 2009, 5:45 AM
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Registered: Jul 20, 2008
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hi,
A well insulated single leather boot will be warm enough for southern alps in winter. (Have a look at La Sportiva Nepal evo or Raichle 90 degree.) Having said that if you are planning on spending many nights away from huts and in bivys then consider a double plastic boot.
Have a look at Macpac for the jacket they make a couple of very good models. Was talking to Kem Johnston who is a NZ alpine guide and he says that Macpac Prophet is the best jacket he has ever owned.
Hope this helps.
Matt
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Myxomatosis
Dec 24, 2009, 6:32 AM
Post #9 of 14
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mattsheat wrote: hi, A well insulated single leather boot will be warm enough for southern alps in winter. (Have a look at La Sportiva Nepal evo or Raichle 90 degree.) Having said that if you are planning on spending many nights away from huts and in bivys then consider a double plastic boot. Have a look at Macpac for the jacket they make a couple of very good models. Was talking to Kem Johnston who is a NZ alpine guide and he says that Macpac Prophet is the best jacket he has ever owned. Hope this helps. Matt
Hey Matt... my friend also suggested the Prophet. I think its a winner and good price 
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mattsheat
Dec 24, 2009, 8:23 AM
Post #10 of 14
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Registered: Jul 20, 2008
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In reply to: Hey Matt... my friend also suggested the Prophet. I think its a winner and good price
Yea I am looking at getting one myself. A mate of mine also climbs in a Macpac stealth softshell and raves about it, might be worth a look if you are thinking of getting a soft shell. OR also have a hooded softshell which is easy to find here in NZ and is a bit cheaper than the macpac stealth.
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Myxomatosis
Dec 24, 2009, 8:51 AM
Post #11 of 14
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I dont think ill have enough money for both hard and soft shell (still gotta get pants, boots, gaitors, socks)... Guess the hardsell + other clothes will be fine until Winter
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karmiclimber
Dec 24, 2009, 9:42 AM
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Registered: Mar 11, 2004
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Yeah but he could easily girth hitch his helmet on a thin cord to a point on his coat or some such so he wouldn't lose it. Since he doesn't have a ton of extra cash right now...
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Myxomatosis
Dec 24, 2009, 2:03 PM
Post #13 of 14
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Well I dont have a helmet... so problem solved 
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Myxomatosis
Dec 27, 2009, 9:21 AM
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I just got a pair of Scarpa Escape GTX... They seem to fit alright. Heaps of room around the toe area, tight around the mid foot but a little movement in the heel (like the tiniest bit of movement when I stand on my toes)
I havn't broken them in yet so hopefully the heel will improve a bit, other wise quite happy with them.
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