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It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore.
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Hexciter


Jan 9, 2010, 6:16 AM
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It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore.
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Check UIAA website.

http://www.theuiaa.org/certified_equipment.php


USnavy


Jan 9, 2010, 6:24 AM
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Re: [Hexciter] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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It doesnít matter, the UIAA stamp means nothing on cams. A cam only needs to hold 5 kN to be UIAA certified. There are other requirements to get the stamp but the main issue with CCH (quality control) is not tested under UIAA certification.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 9, 2010, 8:31 AM)


Hexciter


Jan 9, 2010, 6:34 AM
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Re: [USnavy] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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For UIAA standarts
A cam needs to hold 5 kN to be certified as free climbing gear. Below that aid only product. (i.e. progressıon equipment)

http://www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/pictorial_files/UIAA125-Frictional-Anchors.jpg

2 kN valid for nuts and chocks only.

http://www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/pictorial_files/UIAA124-Chocks_1.jpg


adatesman


Jan 9, 2010, 7:44 AM
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mheyman


Jan 9, 2010, 8:33 AM
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Re: [USnavy] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
It doesnít matter, the UIAA stamp means nothing on cams. A cam only needs to hold 2 kN to be UIAA certified as aid gear and 5 kN to be certified as free climbing gear. There are other requirements to get the stamp but the main issue with CCH (quality control) is not tested under UIAA certification.

Not true at all! It means the UIAA hasn't certified them, and in that regard CCH has slipped yet again on that not so slippery slope.


USnavy


Jan 9, 2010, 8:39 AM
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Re: [adatesman] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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adatesman wrote:
USnavy wrote:
It doesnít matter, the UIAA stamp means nothing on cams.

In your opinion, that is.

USnavy wrote:
A cam only needs to hold 2 kN to be UIAA certified as aid gear and 5 kN to be certified as free climbing gear.

Incorrect. There is no separate certification for aid-only cams. They're all tested under UIAA125/EN12276.

USnavy wrote:
There are other requirements to get the stamp but the main issue with CCH (quality control) is not tested under UIAA certification.

This one I agree with you on.
hmm I guess I confused the chocks spec, I recall UIAA stating they allow a lower limit of 2 kN on nuts to incorporate "aid only" nuts. Anyway itís not hard to reach 5 kN on a lead fall. If every piece of gear only held 5 kN, trad climbing would be a whole lot more "interesting", if you will...


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 9, 2010, 8:44 AM)


mheyman


Jan 9, 2010, 8:21 PM
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Re: [USnavy] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
If every piece of gear only held 5 kN, trad climbing would be a whole lot more "interesting", if you will...

Exactly. So If CCH can't or won't even even get them certified for this well accepted test then WTF!

Just like this, the whole problem with CCH is that they neglect many standard things that reliable manufacturers do.


asaxton


Jan 9, 2010, 8:43 PM
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Re: [mheyman] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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Looking at the thread
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._string=cch;#1132135
it seems like CCH just had a tragedy and are having a hard time making up for their loss.

Could the UIAA approval be like their website domain renewal? They need to get the paperwork pushed through, but have a noob trying to figure it all out?

After all, their website
http://www.aliencamsbycch.net/testing.html
has reasonably well documented tests of their cams.......

Any thoughts?


(This post was edited by asaxton on Jan 9, 2010, 8:51 PM)


adatesman


Jan 9, 2010, 9:43 PM
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adatesman


Jan 9, 2010, 9:46 PM
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Hexciter


Jan 10, 2010, 2:06 AM
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Re: [adatesman] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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Not that long.
My previous check was in October 2009. Aliens were certified on that time.
All you true in regarding the main problem of CCH is QC.
By being not certified by UIAA means Alien's strength ratings are not certified by independent labs. That means you have to trust CCH or make your own strength test.
From my point, I don't believe CCH and I can't test them.
Overall, at least for me Aliens are aid only products.


mheyman


Jan 10, 2010, 4:08 AM
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Re: [adatesman] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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adatesman wrote:
It may surprise some to hear me say it, but CCH not having UIAA certification isn't necessarily a problem...But long story short, their problem isn't with the design but the execution, which is something that the certification tests wouldn't catch since the sample size is so small.

Aric, I understand and agree. Still for a company in their position it's not a change that will bolster their reputation.


Adk


Jan 10, 2010, 6:04 AM
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Re: [Hexciter] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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Hexciter wrote:
Not that long.
That means you have to trust CCH or make your own strength test.
Very similar to Trojan condoms. You either trust the company to make the right thing or you have to test them yourself.
Buying them to test and at what sample size can end up to be a lot of expense. Testing in both cases might be fun though.
We as Americans trust companies with our lives all the time to make the right thing, to hold up to what they claim. Independant certifications mean a lot to me.


adatesman


Jan 10, 2010, 7:32 AM
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Adk


Jan 10, 2010, 8:30 AM
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Re: [adatesman] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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"adatesman wrote:
expired 12/31/08 and from what I'm told fact that CCH continued to use their label after that point was a topic of discussion at the UIAA meeting last May (with the UIAA being rather displeased about it).

Used without permission, illegally that is?Unsure
Please say it's not so?Mad

I usually keep thoughts that I'm writing below private but;
It's time to get this product right or take it off the market. Get it right, keep the cost low and reclaim your once well known reputation as a great product.
$50+ for a product whose safety/workmanship is skeptical is WRONG!
You shouldn't have to treat a cam like a condom. "I hope it works correctly"Blush


(This post was edited by Adk on Jan 10, 2010, 10:31 AM)


curt


Jan 10, 2010, 11:47 AM
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Re: [Hexciter] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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Hexciter wrote:
...the main problem of CCH is QC.
By being not certified by UIAA means Alien's strength ratings are not certified by independent labs. That means you have to trust CCH or make your own strength test...

Unfortunately, that was true even when the certification was valid.

Curt


andesite


Apr 27, 2010, 3:45 AM
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Re: [Hexciter] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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And now they are UIAA approved again - yay

http://safety.theuiaa.org/...e.php?id=2151&x=


Hexciter


Apr 27, 2010, 6:24 AM
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Re: [andesite] It looks like CCH Aliens are not UIAA approved anymore. [In reply to]
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But CCH on Sale

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1132391/Colorado-Custom-Hardware-Alien-Cams-for-Sale

It seems to be a sales act.


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