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Stick clip ethics
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fiend


Jun 4, 2001, 1:11 PM
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Registered: May 25, 2001
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Stick clip ethics
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If you stick clip the first bolt of a sport route for safety reasons and then precede to send the route first try placing the rest of your draws on lead is it considered an onsight? I know this might just be arguing semantics but I'm curious.

Also I did a route the other day with obvious tick marks at the top. I considered the route an Onsight but was it a flash because of tick marks left behind by someone else? I didn't know the ticks were there untill I climbed up to them and wouldn't be bothered to clean them off if I did know about them. So was my onsight really a flash because i had someone elses unwanted beta in the form of tickmarks?

-mark


Partner jhundrup


Jun 4, 2001, 2:45 PM
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Stick clip ethics [In reply to]
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As far as your onsite route is concerned, I don't see how clipping the first bolt should make any difference. The definition of onsite is "complete a climb, first time, no falls and with no prior beta". If you didn't fall, I don't see how being safe could change anything.

Your other route however I would say is up to you. In your mind if you had been able to stay on route and complete the climb without the marks, then I would still call it an onsite. If you know that you used the tick marks to be able to complete the climb, then you probably just flashed it. I think that you just need to be true to yourself in this instance.

Jared

[ This Message was edited by: jhundrup on 2001-06-04 14:48 ]


fiend


Jun 4, 2001, 3:03 PM
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I know that I could have onsighted the climb without the tick marks and I do consider it an onsight. I'm curious to other peoples insight though.

As far as the stick clipping goes, I think there is a big grey are in when it comes to onsighting and pink pointing etc.
My understanding is that to send a climb with gear already in place is a pinkpoint and wouldn't having even one draw in be considered a pinkpoint? But then again you have climbs like those in the Madness Cave (Red River Gorge, Ky) which have fixed draws. Would these be considered onsights, flashes or pinkpoints?
I know these answers probably all depend on personal perspective and that's why I want other people's opinions.


wandt


Jun 5, 2001, 12:22 AM
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If you had free soloed it, it would still be considered an onsight, right? If you were ropeless you probably wouldn't stop to place draws just for kicks. The only difference that I see between onsighting something with gear in place and onsighting something free-solo is that with the gear you have the opportunity to get the redpoint, should your first try not succeed (as opposed to free-soloing, where your future activities will probably be limited to being scraped off the bottom of the climb with a spatula.) My rule of thumb, at least, is if you do it all on your first go, no falls, no pulling on gear/whatever, no previous beta, it's an onsight.
Congrats on the onsight. -Nick

Here's another hypothetical question for y'all: if someone is 4'11" tall and they NEED a cheater stone to reach the first hold of a route (lets call it 5.10 in the guide. If they don't use the cheater stone, those first moves are much harder than 5.10) and they flash the rest of it, first try, no beta, is it still an onsight?


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