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napoleon_in_rags
Jan 14, 2010, 5:50 PM
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I am buying my first set of Ice Climbing Crampons and am choosing between the BD Cyborg Pro or the Petzl Dartwin. Has anyone used wither or both and have any advice?
I haven't really looked at any other brands since not that many stores seem to stock anything but BD or Petzl and would be interested if anyone would recommend another brand over these.
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shoo
Jan 14, 2010, 6:15 PM
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napoleon_in_rags wrote: I am buying my first set of Ice Climbing Crampons and am choosing between the BD Cyborg Pro or the Petzl Dartwin. Has anyone used wither or both and have any advice? I haven't really looked at any other brands since not that many stores seem to stock anything but BD or Petzl and would be interested if anyone would recommend another brand over these.
Recently had the same debate myself. I've used Grivel g14s, g12s and cyborgs, but not dartwins. Finally bought the cyborg pros.
Advantages of cyborgs over dartwins:
Comes with anti-balling plates
Front points are replaceable
Can be easily changed to go monopoint without having to buy new parts (though you do have to cut through the ABS plates to do it)
Stainless steel (rusts less, no surface coating means a bit of environmental goodness)
Worth noting that the dartwins are lighter (860g vs 1120g)
Another possible option are the Grivel g14s, though the parts availability for Grivel in the US is questionable. They still have distributors, but who knows.
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climbxclimb
Jan 14, 2010, 6:27 PM
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Petzl M10 are more versitile than Dartwin, and they climb very well.
But the new Grivel Ramboo would be my recommendation
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napoleon_in_rags
Jan 14, 2010, 7:21 PM
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climbxclimb wrote: Petzl M10 are more versitile than Dartwin, and they climb very well. But the new Grivel Ramboo would be my recommendation
I looked at those but they cost more. Are they worth it over the BD's?
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sungam
Jan 14, 2010, 8:21 PM
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napoleon_in_rags wrote: climbxclimb wrote: Petzl M10 are more versitile than Dartwin, and they climb very well. But the new Grivel Ramboo would be my recommendation I looked at those but they cost more. Are they worth it over the BD's?
The new Rambo's are the shizzy-ma-shit (as in the best).
Also worth noting is the the Cyborgs are not as rigid as the Rambo's, making them better for walking but not as good for climbing. If you're going to be doing more alpin-ey stuff where you'll be wearing your 'pons while covering distance go for the G14's, if you're just doing kinda cragging-y style stuff, the rigids. THough, to be honest, aparently the difference isn't as much now as it used to be. A friend (and a strong winter climber) of mine just upgraded to the Rambo's from, I think, from m10's - maybe they were g14's, though. He reckon's they're 10 times better for steep mixed.
Have I rambled (rambo'd) enough yet?
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AntinJ
Jan 14, 2010, 8:40 PM
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I have the new BD Cyborgs...and I love them so far, however the crampons I used for Ice Climbing before this were the Grivel G12's (w/ Straps) so I may be biased.
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coastal_climber
Jan 15, 2010, 1:25 AM
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Cyborgs all the way. They seem to fit more types of boots as well.
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tomtom
Jan 15, 2010, 1:41 AM
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Petzl Vasaks.
Fabulous ice climbing crampon.
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nikmit
Jan 15, 2010, 1:03 PM
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sungam wrote: napoleon_in_rags wrote: climbxclimb wrote: Petzl M10 are more versitile than Dartwin, and they climb very well. But the new Grivel Ramboo would be my recommendation I looked at those but they cost more. Are they worth it over the BD's? When it comes to ice Grivel is always worth it over BD. The new Rambo's are the shizzy-ma-shit (as in the best). Also worth noting is the the Cyborgs are not as rigid as the Rambo's, making them better for walking but not as good for climbing. If you're going to be doing more alpin-ey stuff where you'll be wearing your 'pons while covering distance go for the G14's, if you're just doing kinda cragging-y style stuff, the rigids. THough, to be honest, aparently the difference isn't as much now as it used to be. A friend (and a strong winter climber) of mine just upgraded to the Rambo's from, I think, from m10's - maybe they were g14's, though. He reckon's they're 10 times better for steep mixed. Have I rambled (rambo'd) enough yet?
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angry
Jan 15, 2010, 2:22 PM
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I chose the Cyborgs with the new-matic binding. So far I'm very happy with them.
I bought last year when Grivel in the US was up in the air. Now with Liberty Mountain, I wish I'd gotten the G14's. Just opinion but I don't think anyone has the metallurgical quality of Grivel.
The Dart seems like a good second pair of pons. Something to drytool with and wish they were fruit boots instead. In fact, they're light and like $400 cheaper than fruit boots (you've already got boots anyway) so it's not a bad idea. I don't think they'd be a very good bread and butter crampon though.
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dr_feelgood
Jan 15, 2010, 3:00 PM
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I loves me some M10s.
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adam3
Jan 15, 2010, 5:11 PM
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I'm with most of the crowd. BD Cyborgs are great. I just switched mine to Mono and skipped cutting the balling plate and just left it on.
Also the new Cyborg have a great new mix making them super strong and lighter : )
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napoleon_in_rags
Jan 15, 2010, 5:51 PM
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That settles it. I will go with BD.
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AntinJ
Jan 15, 2010, 5:56 PM
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In reply to: I'm with most of the crowd. BD Cyborgs are great. I just switched mine to Mono and skipped cutting the balling plate and just left it on. Also the new Cyborg have a great new mix making them super strong and lighter : )
Adam - you can switch to Mono without cutting the ABS Plate? Why would they suggest you cut it if it's not necessary?
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scotty1974
Jan 15, 2010, 8:19 PM
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I like my M10's but the anti balling plate SUCKS!! It took forerver to get on, and it's already ripped up front after one season. Considering I paid 35+ bucks for some rubber pieces and attachments it's a negative. Other than that they climb very well, front points don't wear much and they don't rust overly much.
My next crampon will be the BD though, especially since the antibott is a plastic that is already installed, plus they come in stainless.
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cfnubbler
Jan 15, 2010, 10:09 PM
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A few thoughts on the responses thus far. I've climbed in all the crampons mentioned in this thread. These are only opinions, albeit based on a fair amount of first hand experience:
1. Darts don't come with Antibotts
This is essentially irrelevant with a horizontal-rail crampon. Cookie cutter style crampons are the buggers that ball up badly. Balling up is rarely an issue with horizontal rail crampons, and particularly not when we're talking waterfall ice as opposed to alpine routes.
2. The cyborgs are more rigid than the Darts
Also irrelevant, if you are buying mainly for waterfall ice, where you will be wearing a very rigid boot. A good pair of boots will provide all the rigidity you'll need
3. Replaceable front points
The first (and only IMO) compelling argument in favor of the Cyborgs
4. Stainless steel
Pure marketing hype. In 18 years of ice climbing, I have yet to see problematic corrosion on my gear. Sure, there have been ocassional cosmetic spots, but never anything impacting function. Non-issue.
5. Weight
A clear and compelling advantage of the Darts over the M10s. I don't have the specs in front of me, but boy do M10s feel heavy. I don't recall noticing the weight of the Cyborgs one way or the other
6. Darts as all around crampons
I actually find them to be an ideal everyday waterfall and mixed crampon. Angry, I'm not sure what your reservations are about them in this role? If it's the non-replaceable front points, fair 'nuff, but they climb and hold their points so well In reply to: that I don't really worry about it. 7. Grivel in general I agree with several posters on this one. For many years, Grivel has made absolutely the finest crampons, in every performance category from snow slogging to sport-mixed. Now that they are going to be readily available in the states again, I'll be going back. Until I do, it's Darts all the way for waterfall and mixed.
(This post was edited by cfnubbler on Jan 15, 2010, 10:18 PM)
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the_climber
Jan 18, 2010, 6:54 PM
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In reply to: Another possible option are the Grivel g14s, though the parts availability for Grivel in the US is questionable. They still have distributors, but who knows.
Liberty mountain can supply replacement parts in North America. A friend just ordered parts from them to Canada, they arrive next week I believe.
Cyborg's are more or less a copy of the G14's.
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