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mackiethe1for
Jan 19, 2010, 12:06 AM
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Hey! first thread haha, anyways just got into climbing a couple of weeks ago with my brother and we are building a nice rack so far! we just got our set of stoppers from Black Diamond 1-13: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/protection/stopperr-set-pro-no-1-13 They seem great but what are stoppers 1-2 supposed to be used for? i mean the instructions say they musnt be used as a fall arrest protection so what do you use them for? hehe, another thing i understand a KN is a measure of force and from what i have learnt A KN is of about 100 Kg of weight is that right? and one last thing! how do you carry stoppers? do you put them all in one carabiner or do you put one on each quickdraw? Thanks a lot guys! i hope to start using them this weekend.
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angry
Jan 19, 2010, 12:15 AM
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The only reason I'm going to give you a good answer is because a gorgeous Thai woman left me in a good mood today. You'll be best to rack your stoppers several on a biner. My personal preference is to use purple biners since I don't have any other biners on my rack that color. Most people go small and large. The easiest way is to rack the ones with a hole in them (large) on one biner and solid on another. You can come up with your own preference on that later. For 1 and 2. Keep them on the rack. I mean, why not. They aren't weighing you down. I do place RP's that size but have only placed stoppers that size a time or two in 14 years. Basically they are useless, especially free, but there is no reason not to carry them. Do your level best not to ever fall on them though, just looking at them and you can figure out why I say that. Have fun, be solid, be safe.
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billl7
Jan 19, 2010, 12:17 AM
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If they are not to be used for fall protection then the only thing left is for direct aid (or as a weapon). yes, 1 kN = 100 kg Carry multiple stoppers on one carabiner. Maybe use them this weekend by practicing placements at ground level? Leading seems awfully risky at this point in your climbing carreer. Cheers! Bill L
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Adk
Jan 19, 2010, 12:17 AM
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Don't use those really small stoppers. 1 and 2!! They are good for anchoring a small dog to the base of a wall.
(This post was edited by Adk on Jan 19, 2010, 6:29 PM)
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angry
Jan 19, 2010, 1:07 AM
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scottek67 wrote: angry wrote: The only reason I'm going to give you a good answer is because a gorgeous Thai woman left me in a good mood today. angry has a girlfriend angry has a girlfriend and that was a good answer. the warm climate must be making you soft. There are 2 possible outcomes. 1. I get a Thai massuese girlfriend who's an amazing cook and who's son is de rocks rock prodigy. Basically what I've got now plus luvin. 2. A heavily accented "Just Friends". Who knows what happens to the rest of the list. Ugh.
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dugl33
Jan 19, 2010, 1:11 AM
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A newton is the quantity of force required to accelerate a mass of 1 kg at the rate of 1 meter per second per second. A kilonewton is a thousand newtons. F=M*A so M=F/A 1000N/9.8m/s/s = 102 kg or aprox. 225 lbs of force I'd carry the whole set on a single oval, but that's just me. The smallest ones are for aid or it when its your only option, and yes they are gonna break with much of a fall.
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scottek67
Jan 19, 2010, 1:14 AM
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ATTA-BOY! I am jealous and also happy for you. keep us posted!
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scottek67
Jan 19, 2010, 1:21 AM
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nice one (your big bolt) did you use it and did it work? (that line)
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scottek67
Jan 19, 2010, 1:40 AM
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ouch. and welcome back!
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chrisJoosse
Jan 19, 2010, 2:58 AM
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mackiethe1for wrote: They seem great but what are stoppers 1-2 supposed to be used for? i mean the instructions say they musnt be used as a fall arrest protection so what do you use them for? The smaller ones aren't rated to handle dynamic fall forces, but are considered sufficient for static forces- that is, aid. You can hang on these things, just don't bounce. Or run out ugly above it. You'll read stories about how their micro-piece held on that one 15' whipper... but your takeaway should be that they were surpised that the piece held. My understanding is that the reason they say 'not for fall arrest' is that the UIAA standard for fall arrest protection is higher than these pieces rated in the lab. Actual performance of any placement/piece will vary.
mackiethe1for wrote: how do you carry stoppers? do you put them all in one carabiner or do you put one on each quickdraw? Typically, you keep your stoppers on one biner or split them up on two (if you drop one set, you'll still have the other half). When placing a piece, it's kinda nice to have the next-larger-or-smaller one right there in case your initial size estimates are off for the placement in question. Once you have the piece placed, clip one of your draws to it.
mackiethe1for wrote: i hope to start using them this weekend. Have fun, but consider not trusting your life to gear placements until you have some sort of training or mentoring doing it.
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qwert
Jan 19, 2010, 3:22 PM
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angry wrote: For 1 and 2. Keep them on the rack. I mean, why not. They aren't weighing you down. I do place RP's that size but have only placed stoppers that size a time or two in 14 years. Basically they are useless, especially free, but there is no reason not to carry them. Do your level best not to ever fall on them though, just looking at them and you can figure out why I say that. I am not shure wether i would advise a beginner to carry a 1 and 2 stopper. So to the OP: If you are planning on leaving them on your rack use them with care! You will read stories about such mikroscopic wires saving someones ass, but those are rare occurances! Mostly they will blow, or the little bit of rock around them will blow. Shure, you can use them, and hope that they will work, or to take some load of you main piece, but never place them and expect them to hold a fall! And on the kN: wikipedia is you friend. qwert
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johnwesely
Jan 19, 2010, 3:26 PM
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You should lead right away and post a report on here first thing
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Kevthecoffeeguy
Jan 19, 2010, 4:04 PM
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I personally love the #1 stoppers... They are wonderful for hanging gear up off the ground when the weather is not as desirable as you would like...[
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petsfed
Jan 19, 2010, 5:11 PM
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billl7 wrote: yes, 1 kN = 100 kg Close, but not quite. 1 kN = 1000 N = 1000*1kg*1m/s/s Or, 1 kN is the same as 1000 Newtons, which is the same as 1000 times the force necessary to accelerate a mass of 1kg at a rate of 1 m/s/s The force of gravity on 100kg is approximately 1kN, but they are not equivalent!
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Kevthecoffeeguy
Jan 19, 2010, 5:37 PM
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petsfed wrote: billl7 wrote: yes, 1 kN = 100 kg Close, but not quite. 1 kN = 1000 N = 1000*1kg*1m/s/s Or, 1 kN is the same as 1000 Newtons, which is the same as 1000 times the force necessary to accelerate a mass of 1kg at a rate of 1 m/s/s The force of gravity on 100kg is approximately 1kN, but they are not equivalent! You know its kind of funny. While it is not complicated rocket science. It IS rocket science, As it is how the force of rocket engines are calculated. Just another of those useless bits of information...
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marc801
Jan 19, 2010, 5:40 PM
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qwert wrote: angry wrote: For 1 and 2. Keep them on the rack. I mean, why not. They aren't weighing you down. I do place RP's that size but have only placed stoppers that size a time or two in 14 years. Basically they are useless, especially free, but there is no reason not to carry them. Do your level best not to ever fall on them though, just looking at them and you can figure out why I say that. I am not shure wether i would advise a beginner to carry a 1 and 2 stopper. So to the OP: If you are planning on leaving them on your rack use them with care! You will read stories about such mikroscopic wires saving someones ass, but those are rare occurances! Mostly they will blow, or the little bit of rock around them will blow. Shure, you can use them, and hope that they will work, or to take some load of you main piece, but never place them and expect them to hold a fall! The situation can be improved a bit by using a Screamer or other type of load limiting draw. Also, sometimes the tiny stoppers are useful for keeping a larger piece in it's placement via some sort of opposition or directional control.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 19, 2010, 5:56 PM
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Just remember to set every stopper you place. HARD. According to some guy on MP, if you don't, you'll die.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 19, 2010, 6:59 PM
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donald949 wrote: Someone posted on MP, now that is news. Heh. Nice one.
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dugl33
Jan 19, 2010, 8:24 PM
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Kevthecoffeeguy wrote: petsfed wrote: billl7 wrote: yes, 1 kN = 100 kg Close, but not quite. 1 kN = 1000 N = 1000*1kg*1m/s/s Or, 1 kN is the same as 1000 Newtons, which is the same as 1000 times the force necessary to accelerate a mass of 1kg at a rate of 1 m/s/s The force of gravity on 100kg is approximately 1kN, but they are not equivalent! You know its kind of funny. While it is not complicated rocket science. It IS rocket science, As it is how the force of rocket engines are calculated. Just another of those useless bits of information... If you were climbing on the moon the #1 and #2 stopper could hold a pretty good whipper. Revising the gravitational constant from 9.8m/s^2 to 1.63m/s^2... 1000N/1.63m/s/s = 613 kg, so a 2kn stopper could hold 1227 kg before failure. Not too shabby. On belay, major tom?
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Kevthecoffeeguy
Jan 19, 2010, 8:34 PM
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dugl33 wrote: Kevthecoffeeguy wrote: petsfed wrote: billl7 wrote: yes, 1 kN = 100 kg Close, but not quite. 1 kN = 1000 N = 1000*1kg*1m/s/s Or, 1 kN is the same as 1000 Newtons, which is the same as 1000 times the force necessary to accelerate a mass of 1kg at a rate of 1 m/s/s The force of gravity on 100kg is approximately 1kN, but they are not equivalent! You know its kind of funny. While it is not complicated rocket science. It IS rocket science, As it is how the force of rocket engines are calculated. Just another of those useless bits of information... If you were climbing on the moon the #1 and #2 stopper could hold a pretty good whipper. Revising the gravitational constant from 9.8m/s^2 to 1.63m/s^2... 1000N/1.63m/s/s = 613 kg, so a 2kn stopper could hold 1227 kg before failure. Not too shabby. On belay, major tom? I think Major Toms biggest problem was that he was not being belayed. He was free soloing
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shoo
Jan 19, 2010, 8:41 PM
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Kevthecoffeeguy wrote: I think Major Toms biggest problem was that he was not being belayed. He was free soloing He had rockets. It was aid.
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