Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Trad Climbing:
Placing a Cam and a Nut
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Trad Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


killingmorethancancer


Jan 27, 2010, 9:43 AM
Post #1 of 25 (4741 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 24, 2010
Posts: 61

Placing a Cam and a Nut
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.


lrossi


Jan 27, 2010, 9:53 AM
Post #2 of 25 (4724 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 4, 2005
Posts: 118

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.


jmeizis


Jan 27, 2010, 10:29 AM
Post #3 of 25 (4673 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 628

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

There's a little notice on the tags attached to that gear that says "seek qualified instruction before use" or something generally to that effect. I suggest you do that. The internet is not qualified instruction. With in person instruction you'll get more information, more quickly, so then you can spend more time actually climbing as opposed to figuring it out yourself or ending up a statistic if you screw it up.


(This post was edited by jmeizis on Jan 27, 2010, 10:46 AM)


rschap


Jan 27, 2010, 11:29 AM
Post #4 of 25 (4642 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590

Re: [jmeizis] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I was self taught and did just fine but I learned later that some of my placements were marginal and it took some time to break bad habits. But Iím not one to preach so if you just want to research it check out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/...264619297&sr=8-2


jakedatc


Jan 27, 2010, 12:07 PM
Post #5 of 25 (4607 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054

Re: [lrossi] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

lrossi wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

good save.. well done.


jeepnphreak


Jan 27, 2010, 12:48 PM
Post #6 of 25 (4572 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 1259

Re: [rschap] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post


Good call there, John long's book has some great photos and explainations of good and poor placments with stoppers and cams.
Read and understand throughly then find a experineced trad climber to show you first hand.


tradrenn


Jan 27, 2010, 1:00 PM
Post #7 of 25 (4556 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

First:
You need to read this.

Second:
You need to buy some book and read them so you have a basic knowledge before you head out to the crag.

"Rock Climb" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-64-1
"Climbing Anchors" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-37-4
"More Climbing Anchors" by John Long and Bob Gains, ISBN 0-57540-000-6

Third:
In a partners section try to find someone more experienced than you to climb with, be careful and feel free to try about 20-30 different partners, you should learn a little bit more about climbing from each of them. Ask to be corrected every time you do something wrong. Show interest, ask lots of questions, by the end of the day buy them a diner.

Fourth:
Every time you go climbing with new partner, make sure you start on something easy, such as 5.3. I call it "Get to know each other 5.3

HTH
V.


johnwesely


Jan 27, 2010, 1:02 PM
Post #8 of 25 (4553 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Your profile says you lead 5.11a trad routes. You probably already know everything.


currupt4130


Jan 27, 2010, 1:03 PM
Post #9 of 25 (4553 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 515

Re: [jeepnphreak] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jeepnphreak wrote:

Good call there, John long's book has some great photos and explainations of good and poor placments with stoppers and cams.
Read and understand throughly then find a experineced trad climber to show you first hand.

This one is better. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/...bben/e/9781594850066

Seriously get someone to show you whats up. A buddy of mine was climbing with a guy from camp that needed a partner and who was a sport climber one day.

Well he wanted to do this 5.8 crack and after telling my buddy he knew how to place gear he went ahead and gave him a belay. When my buddy cleaned it, he said almost every single placement was way undercammed, like tipped out.

Point is, you may think you know what you're doing but you really need to make sure you're right.


dugl33


Jan 27, 2010, 3:42 PM
Post #10 of 25 (4485 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

The points made regarding mentors, books, instruction and ground school are all well taken, but I'll take a sincere crack at your query.

Placing good nuts takes practice, experience, a little mechanical inclination, a little engineer's mentality...

On the easy end of the spectrum, you will find those nice V shaped slots. If you are good at grabbing the right sized wrench first time, you'll probably grab the right sized nut. Set it in the V slot, looking for good surface area contact. Some slots resist a straight out tug too, even better. Give the nut a good pop by grabbing the other nuts on the biner to set it, and a little outward tug to make sure a little rope action won't pull it out too easy. Generally, runner it at least with a quickdraw, and maybe a full lenght sling if the route wanders or the placement is shallow.

That's the easy lay-up.

Some people are masters at finding good nut sets in what appear to be continously parallel sided cracks. I'm ok at it but don't usually bother unless I'm using up too many cams. Sometimes looking down the crack with your face near the rock you can see localized constrictions. You can also place gear at waist height at spots you just past and got finger locks in.

Next is the flared crack. Note that most nuts have a flared orientation, usually placed width wise, with the widest orientation to the front, tapering to the back. Hopefully you still have somewhat of a top to bottom V shape.

Things really can get tricky with fluted cracks, which pinch at the front and then open up like the inside of a pipe. Sometimes you can put the nut in skinny wise, and then turn it 90 degrees. These are found more on soft rock like sandstone and volcanic. These can be really sketchy to protect.

Also trickier are very shallow sets, where only part of the nut will go in. Set these extra hard. The tiny micro sets are also less forgiving. Be precise.

Especially in the beginning you'd be wise to assume any given piece might pull, and place more gear to mitigate that risk. Develop an eye for stances and gear sets, so you can climb to a stance and get the gear in.

One way to practice is to place nuts just off the ground and clip a runner into them. Step in the runner. A good bounce will generate more force. Realize though that a fall will load a nut into the thousands of pounds range. Holding body weight is not necessarily indicative.

Hope thats helpful. Good luck.


sbaclimber


Jan 28, 2010, 1:21 AM
Post #11 of 25 (4389 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 3061

Re: [tradrenn] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradrenn wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

First:
You need to read this.

Second:
You need to buy some book and read them so you have a basic knowledge before you head out to the crag.

"Rock Climb" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-64-1
"Climbing Anchors" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-37-4
"More Climbing Anchors" by John Long and Bob Gains, ISBN 0-57540-000-6

Third:
In a partners section try to find someone more experienced than you to climb with, be careful and feel free to try about 20-30 different partners, you should learn a little bit more about climbing from each of them. Ask to be corrected every time you do something wrong. Show interest, ask lots of questions, by the end of the day buy them a diner beer.

Fourth:
Every time you go climbing with new partner, make sure you start on something easy, such as 5.3. I call it "Get to know each other 5.3

HTH
V.
Tongue


blueeyedclimber


Jan 28, 2010, 11:32 AM
Post #12 of 25 (4310 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4598

Re: [johnwesely] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

johnwesely wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Your profile says you lead 5.11a trad routes. You probably already know everything.

No it doesn't. Who are you looking at?


johnwesely


Jan 28, 2010, 11:34 AM
Post #13 of 25 (4306 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [blueeyedclimber] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Your profile says you lead 5.11a trad routes. You probably already know everything.

No it doesn't. Who are you looking at?

He must have changed it.


johnwesely


Jan 28, 2010, 11:37 AM
Post #14 of 25 (4303 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [johnwesely] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

On an unrelated note, the OP appears to be climbing roadcut in his profile picture.


dugl33


Jan 28, 2010, 12:36 PM
Post #15 of 25 (4260 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [tradrenn] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradrenn wrote:

First:
You need to read this.

^ Exceptional...

Second:
You need to buy some book and read them so you have a basic knowledge before you head out to the crag.

"Rock Climb" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-64-1
"Climbing Anchors" by John Long, ISBN 0-934641-37-4
"More Climbing Anchors" by John Long and Bob Gains, ISBN 0-57540-000-6

Third:
In a partners section try to find someone more experienced than you to climb with, be careful and feel free to try about 20-30 different partners, you should learn a little bit more about climbing from each of them. Ask to be corrected every time you do something wrong. Show interest, ask lots of questions, by the end of the day buy them a diner.

Buying someone a small business is a bit over the top. Wink

Fourth:
Every time you go climbing with new partner, make sure you start on something easy, such as 5.3. I call it "Get to know each other 5.3

Sound advice. Working up through difficulty as well as subjective and objective hazards with a new partner is a dang good idea. This is in part chemistry and trust, and also because people are all over the map in terms of how they evaluate and communicate their own skill set. Some people figure they are a 5.11 climber if they pulled a single gym line on TR, and have no idea a route like Steck-Salathe (called 5.9 for years) or even Braille Book, only 5.8, will probably kill them.

HTH
V.


curt


Jan 28, 2010, 6:09 PM
Post #16 of 25 (4188 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Well, you place the nuts where they fit--unlike the cams, which you place where they fit.

Curt


uni_jim


Jan 28, 2010, 6:57 PM
Post #17 of 25 (4165 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 429

Re: [curt] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

curt, I want to go climbing with you one day, you are a genious.


moose_droppings


Jan 28, 2010, 7:37 PM
Post #18 of 25 (4153 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3340

Re: [uni_jim] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

uni_jim wrote:
curt, I want to go climbing with you one day, you are a genious.

You can only suck up to Curt by buying him a drink.


evanwish


Jan 28, 2010, 9:22 PM
Post #19 of 25 (4124 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [johnwesely] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

johnwesely wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Your profile says you lead 5.11a trad routes. You probably already know everything.

No it doesn't. Who are you looking at?

He must have changed it.

i'm pretty sure it still says it.. 5.11 and V5


evanwish


Jan 28, 2010, 9:26 PM
Post #20 of 25 (4122 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 22, 2007
Posts: 1040

Re: [moose_droppings] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

moose_droppings wrote:
uni_jim wrote:
curt, I want to go climbing with you one day, you are a genious.

You can only suck up to Curt by buying him a drink.



curt


Jan 28, 2010, 9:28 PM
Post #21 of 25 (4122 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [moose_droppings] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

moose_droppings wrote:
uni_jim wrote:
curt, I want to go climbing with you one day, you are a genious.

You can only suck up to Curt by buying him a drink.

Not true. You can suck up to me any way you want. Cool

Curt


mar_leclerc


Jan 28, 2010, 11:01 PM
Post #22 of 25 (4087 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 31, 2008
Posts: 156

Re: [killingmorethancancer] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

look at the crack. when you see a spot where the nut of the proper size will not come out with a downward pull, put it there and clip it. Simple as that. Cams are even easier, just place them in the proper range, with the lobes fairly even and there you go.


johnwesely


Jan 29, 2010, 5:01 AM
Post #23 of 25 (4039 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [evanwish] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

evanwish wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
killingmorethancancer wrote:
Im a sport climber that has recently picked up a few cams and nuts due to the fact that here in NC there are like two bolts for 70 feet of rock. I have done a fair share of homework and my own testing on my placement of my cams but im still a little confused about how exactly I want to place a Nut and the right situations to use them. Also I would like some imput for an experienced trad climber on dos and donts of placing a cam.

Your profile says you lead 5.11a trad routes. You probably already know everything.

No it doesn't. Who are you looking at?

He must have changed it.

i'm pretty sure it still says it.. 5.11 and V5

It did say it when he posted the OP. I never make mistakes.


bill413


Jan 29, 2010, 9:27 AM
Post #24 of 25 (4007 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674

Re: [mar_leclerc] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mar_leclerc wrote:
look at the crack. when you see a spot where the nut of the proper size will not come out with a downward pull, put it there and clip it. Simple as that. Cams are even easier, just place them in the proper range, with the lobes fairly even and there you go.

Ummm, many falls generate outward pull. Depending on your system of protection there might even be upward pull.
Evaluate how it will get pulled and set it so it won't come out that way, even if the rope causes it to wiggle around a little.


tradrenn


Jan 29, 2010, 3:39 PM
Post #25 of 25 (3980 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [dugl33] Placing a Cam and a Nut [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Nice catch, I totally missed that.


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Trad Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook