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Does that count as a route?
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Poll: Does that count as a route?
No 3 / 23%
Yes 8 / 62%
Depends (elaborate) 2 / 15%
13 total votes
 

slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 3:35 AM
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Does that count as a route?
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Ok, so I've climbed these two beautiful cracks at the Gunks (both on the same rock). Both have a V1-V2 boulder problem at the start - two-three moves of 45 degree crack, hand jam or fist jam. Once you turn the overhang at like 8 ft high, it's turns into easy slab crack climbing to the top (another 20-2 feet). The guide lists both climbs as 5.11 (yeah, V1-V2 kinda equals 5.11a-5.11b), so my partner was advertizing "slevin lead two 5.11s onsight and i followed".

My view on this is mixed. I do agree that he followed a 5.11, meaning doing the 5.11 moves. However, I dont think on my side it could count as a 5.11 redpoint given that 5.11 moves do not create any exposure.

PS. Kinda liked the quirky gear4rock cams that my partner got - real cheap yet felt bomber and pretty comfy to place.


scottek67


Jan 29, 2010, 4:22 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
Ok, so I've climbed these two beautiful cracks at the Gunks (both on the same rock). Both have a V1-V2 boulder problem at the start - two-three moves of 45 degree crack, hand jam or fist jam. Once you turn the overhang at like 8 ft high, it's turns into easy slab crack climbing to the top (another 20-2 feet). The guide lists both climbs as 5.11 (yeah, V1-V2 kinda equals 5.11a-5.11b), so my partner was advertizing "slevin lead two 5.11s onsight and i followed".

My view on this is mixed. I do agree that he followed a 5.11, meaning doing the 5.11 moves. However, I dont think on my side it could count as a 5.11 redpoint given that 5.11 moves do not create any exposure.

PS. Kinda liked the quirky gear4rock cams that my partner got - real cheap yet felt bomber and pretty comfy to place.
this the calm before the storm.Unimpressed


camhead


Jan 29, 2010, 4:33 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
Ok, so I've climbed these two beautiful cracks at the Gunks (both on the same rock). Both have a V1-V2 boulder problem at the start - two-three moves of 45 degree crack, hand jam or fist jam. Once you turn the overhang at like 8 ft high, it's turns into easy slab crack climbing to the top (another 20-2 feet). The guide lists both climbs as 5.11 (yeah, V1-V2 kinda equals 5.11a-5.11b), so my partner was advertizing "slevin lead two 5.11s onsight and i followed".

My view on this is mixed. I do agree that he followed a 5.11, meaning doing the 5.11 moves. However, I dont think on my side it could count as a 5.11 redpoint given that 5.11 moves do not create any exposure.

PS. Kinda liked the quirky gear4rock cams that my partner got - real cheap yet felt bomber and pretty comfy to place.

You are now a solid Gunks 5.11 leader. Enduroman is waiting for you.


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 4:40 AM
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Registered: Jan 19, 2010
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Re: [scottek67] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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scottek67 wrote:
this the calm before the storm.Unimpressed
Erm, ok - this prolly deserves a separate flame war Smile I guess they are made some place in Eastern Europe (Poland? Russia?) and according to him cost like $150 per set of 5. I have not "tested them to failure" and would probably avoid taking any sizable falls on these puppies. All I am saying is that on a G-rated 3" crack, where I coud plug gear every 3 feet, i liked them fine. Not buying them, of course, extra $20 per cam would change my life enough to justify trusing unfamiliar gear.


colatownkid


Jan 29, 2010, 4:51 AM
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Registered: Nov 27, 2007
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
Ok, so I've climbed these two beautiful cracks at the Gunks (both on the same rock). Both have a V1-V2 boulder problem at the start - two-three moves of 45 degree crack, hand jam or fist jam. Once you turn the overhang at like 8 ft high, it's turns into easy slab crack climbing to the top (another 20-2 feet). The guide lists both climbs as 5.11 (yeah, V1-V2 kinda equals 5.11a-5.11b), so my partner was advertizing "slevin lead two 5.11s onsight and i followed".

My view on this is mixed. I do agree that he followed a 5.11, meaning doing the 5.11 moves. However, I dont think on my side it could count as a 5.11 redpoint given that 5.11 moves do not create any exposure.

PS. Kinda liked the quirky gear4rock cams that my partner got - real cheap yet felt bomber and pretty comfy to place.

Was there a rope involved? If not, I just call it a couple of onsights/flashes. it's one thing to be able to pull 5.11 moves. it's another to be able to place/clean gear while doing it.


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 4:57 AM
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Re: [camhead] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:

You are now a solid Gunks 5.11 leader. Enduroman is waiting for you.
Yeah, Foops is the next stop Smile

ps. actually, have done Foops - amazing route, definitely best of it's grade in the gunks. Enduroman is pretty scary, the first bit of gear is high up and crap...


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 5:02 AM
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Re: [colatownkid] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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colatownkid wrote:
Was there a rope involved? If not, I just call it a couple of onsights/flashes. it's one thing to be able to pull 5.11 moves. it's another to be able to place/clean gear while doing it.
Well, the rope was involved higher up, where the thing turned into 5.5 or something. On the bottom i just treated it as a boulder problem with my belayer spotting me...


colatownkid


Jan 29, 2010, 5:10 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
Was there a rope involved? If not, I just call it a couple of onsights/flashes. it's one thing to be able to pull 5.11 moves. it's another to be able to place/clean gear while doing it.
Well, the rope was involved higher up, where the thing turned into 5.5 or something. On the bottom i just treated it as a boulder problem with my belayer spotting me...

ah...in that case, sure. you led and followed 5.11. whether that translates into onsight success on every 5.11 you try from this point forward...


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 5:28 AM
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Re: [colatownkid] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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colatownkid wrote:
ah...in that case, sure. you led and followed 5.11. whether that translates into onsight success on every 5.11 you try from this point forward...
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

Personally, I think i need to get a bit more miles before i could try something like Rostrum again... at the very least i should be able to do more then three pull-ups. I've lost a lot of muscle while on chemo and should regain some back via training before jumping on anything risky.


johnwesely


Jan 29, 2010, 5:32 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
ah...in that case, sure. you led and followed 5.11. whether that translates into onsight success on every 5.11 you try from this point forward...
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

Personally, I think i need to get a bit more miles before i could try something like Rostrum again... at the very least i should be able to do more then three pull-ups. I've lost a lot of muscle while on chemo and should regain some back via training before jumping on anything risky.

Tell that to your friends. [PSA]If they don't listen, then they are not your true friends.[/PSA]


granite_grrl


Jan 29, 2010, 5:39 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
ah...in that case, sure. you led and followed 5.11. whether that translates into onsight success on every 5.11 you try from this point forward...
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

Personally, I think i need to get a bit more miles before i could try something like Rostrum again... at the very least i should be able to do more then three pull-ups. I've lost a lot of muscle while on chemo and should regain some back via training before jumping on anything risky.
This is a good point. You should be able to do at least 10 pullups before you can call yourself solid at 5.11.


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 6:11 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
This is a good point. You should be able to do at least 10 pullups before you can call yourself solid at 5.11.
Hmm... Does that scale down/up through the grades? Should I be able to do 20 if i lead 12s and 30 if i lead 13s? or does it switch to one-armers at the 13 number? :)


colatownkid


Jan 29, 2010, 6:12 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
ah...in that case, sure. you led and followed 5.11. whether that translates into onsight success on every 5.11 you try from this point forward...
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

Personally, I think i need to get a bit more miles before i could try something like Rostrum again... at the very least i should be able to do more then three pull-ups. I've lost a lot of muscle while on chemo and should regain some back via training before jumping on anything risky.

i thought i was helping you. would i record it as a 5.11 lead? sure. do i think climbing one 5.11 with a low crux on a rope that most people would call a boulder problem anyway makes you a 5.11 leader? hell no. there's definitely a difference between the ability to pull a move or two of 5.11 and the ability to climb sustained 5.11 for three pitches.

tell your friend to get over it. climb multipitch 5.11 when you're ready to climb multipitch 5.11.


granite_grrl


Jan 29, 2010, 6:17 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
This is a good point. You should be able to do at least 10 pullups before you can call yourself solid at 5.11.
Hmm... Does that scale down/up through the grades? Should I be able to do 20 if i lead 12s and 30 if i lead 13s? or does it switch to one-armers at the 13 number? :)
Now, I'm just a weakmo who can barely do one pullup, but it's my understanding that the pullup scale is at least exponential, if not logarithmic.


slevin


Jan 29, 2010, 7:27 AM
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colatownkid wrote:
tell your friend to get over it. climb multipitch 5.11 when you're ready to climb multipitch 5.11.
I want to be back on track for that stuff later this year, but not just yet. Not gonna do anything R/X rated though, not anymore.

granite_grrl wrote:
Now, I'm just a weakmo who can barely do one pullup, but it's my understanding that the pullup scale is at least exponential, if not logarithmic.
Logarithmic for sure. On the other hand, if i recall correctly, "it's not about how many 5.10s you have led, it's about how many 5.10 leaders you have laid".


colatownkid


Jan 29, 2010, 7:35 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
tell your friend to get over it. climb multipitch 5.11 when you're ready to climb multipitch 5.11.
I want to be back on track for that stuff later this year, but not just yet. Not gonna do anything R/X rated though, not anymore.

unfortunately, it seems there is often a high correlation between difficulty >5.10 and R/X ratings (depending on the rock in question).


jrathfon


Jan 29, 2010, 8:21 AM
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i'd say try modern times (8+) and keep on struttin' (9+) and then see if you can call yourself a 5.8 leader. cause if you fall on that 8... you get demoted to a 5.7 leader.


AntinJ


Jan 29, 2010, 8:31 AM
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So Slevin - nice climbing.

Maybe comparable to climbing "City Lights" and then calling yourself a 5.8 leader...


cush


Jan 29, 2010, 9:27 AM
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slevin wrote:
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

you don't need a bunch of people on the internet to tell you it can't be counted as a 5.11. people set up top ropes on the bohemoth boulder, and the trashcan roof all the time. just because you TR it or even lead it doesn't make it equivilent to a full length route. if you don't want to multipitch 5.11 then tell your friend you don't want to. it's that simple. if he pushes the issues tell him to fuck right off and find another partner for the route.


bill413


Jan 29, 2010, 9:37 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

Sorry, if you can't decide internally whether or not you want to do any particular lead, no matter what the grade, you aren't really a leader. If you want to lead something - do it. If you don't want to (it looks too hard, you don't like the pro, it's too warm, you don't have a particular piece of gear, you're having a flat day...whatever the reason) you don't lead it. Leading should be about you, not your friend's expectations of you (although very few of us are immune to that).

You don't have to be "only" a 5.9 leader to say you won't lead an 11. Conversely, you could be a 5.12 leader and say "I don't want to lead that 5.11." It's your choice, regardless of what you've led in the past.


(This post was edited by bill413 on Jan 29, 2010, 9:38 AM)


mojomonkey


Jan 29, 2010, 10:14 AM
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This has been a great new twist on subtle spraying


mr.tastycakes


Feb 1, 2010, 7:29 AM
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Re: [cush] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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cush wrote:
slevin wrote:
you're not helping me! I was hoping that everyone would pitch in and suggest that it can not be counted as a proper 5.11 route. Definitely, not a proper 5.11 lead :) This way, i could show it to my climbing partner and brush away any ideas about doing any 5.10-5.11 multipitch yet.

you don't need a bunch of people on the internet to tell you it can't be counted as a 5.11. people set up top ropes on the bohemoth boulder, and the trashcan roof all the time. just because you TR it or even lead it doesn't make it equivilent to a full length route. if you don't want to multipitch 5.11 then tell your friend you don't want to. it's that simple. if he pushes the issues tell him to fuck right off and find another partner for the route.

that's, like, your opinion, man.Wink

I've got the trashcan overhang pretty wired. I was planning to do it sans rope and become a 5.11 free soloist.


jamatt


Feb 1, 2010, 7:51 AM
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Re: [slevin] Does that count as a route? [In reply to]
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slevin wrote:
Ok, so I've climbed these two beautiful cracks at the Gunks (both on the same rock). Both have a V1-V2 boulder problem at the start - two-three moves of 45 degree crack, hand jam or fist jam. Once you turn the overhang at like 8 ft high, it's turns into easy slab crack climbing to the top (another 20-2 feet). The guide lists both climbs as 5.11 (yeah, V1-V2 kinda equals 5.11a-5.11b), so my partner was advertizing "slevin lead two 5.11s onsight and i followed".

My view on this is mixed. I do agree that he followed a 5.11, meaning doing the 5.11 moves. However, I dont think on my side it could count as a 5.11 redpoint given that 5.11 moves do not create any exposure.

PS. Kinda liked the quirky gear4rock cams that my partner got - real cheap yet felt bomber and pretty comfy to place.

well, there's a route at ship rock in nc that's rated 5.9 or 5.7 v2. It's got a bouldery start that would be 5.9, but the rest is cruising 5.7. I've led it mulktiple times, and I would never claim a 5.9 nc trad lead.


csproul


Feb 1, 2010, 8:14 AM
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Borrowed Time? I'll give 'er 5.9, but just think how cool it would be if that crux was at the end of the route!


slevin


Feb 2, 2010, 10:23 PM
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jamatt wrote:
well, there's a route at ship rock in nc that's rated 5.9 or 5.7 v2. It's got a bouldery start that would be 5.9, but the rest is cruising 5.7. I've led it mulktiple times, and I would never claim a 5.9 nc trad lead.
5.9 is not V2 by any means, V2 is more like 5.11.

PS. Did Low Exposure this weekend, i think this route should have more stars next to it - perfect pro, awesome moves. Wanted to do squiggles direct but went bouldering instead.

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