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currupt4130
Jan 29, 2010, 11:16 AM
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mrtristan wrote: I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through. It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.
The nose of a hotwire works well in there too.
I had to bring seconds up at the same time with two 10.2's with my Reverso 3. It was a workout.
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vegastradguy
Jan 29, 2010, 12:51 PM
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you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases.
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rschap
Jan 29, 2010, 11:11 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: So you're saying that you should be using it on the low friction side and your wife should use it on the high friction side?
My wife has her own belay device.
granite_grrl wrote: Too much friction in auto-block mode? The whole point is that the rope won't move....it's blocked. Perhaps just give the Guide to your wife and learn to use a munter.
Do you know how these devices work? Or perhaps you don’t understand what I mean; I’m not talking about lowering in autoblock mode I’m talking about pulling slack. I’ve used an autoblock for years, I just don’t care for the way these devices work. I’m sure some people find it useful I personally don’t like it.
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rschap
Jan 29, 2010, 11:21 PM
Post #31 of 90
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I can’t buy Kong, I don’t have a rational reason for it I just can’t. Is the B52 and autoblock? I didn’t know that. Madrock has the same downfall the old reverso had. And I don’t care for the Toucan either. A friend of mine has one and I’ve used it once, I just didn’t like it. I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but it’s just not made.
Edit: I just read up on the B52 and see how it’s an autoblock. I like the ability to lower that petzl and BD have put on their devices and the B52 does not have this.
Edit: I never looked at the Madlock before, is it even an autoblock? It doesn’t look like it has an autoblock mode just a bottle opener.
(This post was edited by rschap on Jan 31, 2010, 6:31 PM)
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steple
Jan 30, 2010, 12:30 AM
Post #32 of 90
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lukebrown607 wrote: I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?
The main difference is that the attachment point that you use in 'reverso mode' is angled 90° differently. The way I built anchors and hook it up doesn't work with the BD, but works well with the Petzl. But this might be the other way around for you.
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colatownkid
Jan 30, 2010, 4:53 AM
Post #33 of 90
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mrtristan wrote: I've used both and I think each has its own merits. When belaying the second in autoblock mode, you can clip a Petzl Spirit biner through the hole on the bottom of the Reverso if you need to and use that to lower out/give slack. The hole is there on the BD, but you have to tie cord to it to get a biner through. It is hard to belay up two seconds using fat ropes with the Reverso. I've heard it's easier with the BD but haven't used it for that purpose so I don't know.
Not necessarily. Usually you can just use a carabiner, but it has to keylock instead of notched.
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possum2082
Jan 30, 2010, 5:31 AM
Post #34 of 90
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In reply to: you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases.
yeah? but it opens beer bottles.
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I_do
Jan 30, 2010, 6:30 AM
Post #35 of 90
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possum2082 wrote: In reply to: you mean the device that's a cheap ripoff of the old petzl reverso- the one that tends to turn into a knife over time? there's a reason petzl changed the design- even if they wont actually say that in press releases. yeah? but it opens beer bottles.
Dude, the newspaper opens beer bottles other bottles open botlles, rocks, knives, lighters and teeth. This has been discussed at length a 100 times do a search you NooB!
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possum2082
Jan 30, 2010, 6:36 AM
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teach me more.
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I_do
Jan 30, 2010, 6:45 AM
Post #37 of 90
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possum2082 wrote: teach me more.
Samurai sword? Don't use your teeth I once popped a filling, my dentist was not amused.
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currupt4130
Jan 30, 2010, 7:52 AM
Post #38 of 90
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rschap wrote: I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but it’s just not made.
So why not just clean the teeth off of it? A bastard file will take care of it in no time. Just go slow and be careful.
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shockabuku
Jan 30, 2010, 9:18 AM
Post #39 of 90
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rschap wrote: I can’t but Kong, I don’t have a rational reason for it I just can’t.
That's funny. I'd buy more Kong stuff if it was readily available.
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tomtom
Jan 30, 2010, 9:56 AM
Post #40 of 90
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rschap wrote: I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but it’s just not made.
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Khoi
Jan 30, 2010, 1:15 PM
Post #41 of 90
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rschap wrote: I can’t buy [fixed?] Kong, I don’t have a rational reason for it I just can’t.
Why can't you buy Kong? What are you non-rational reasons?
rschap wrote: Edit: I never looked at the Madlock before, is it even an autoblock? It doesn’t look like it has an autoblock mode just a bottle opener.
Yes, it is an autoblock. It is marketed as having a very simple "lower the second" function.
From their website:
"The innovative 45 degree loading design allows for the belay to lower the second climber without creating a leverage advantage. "
I was thinking that the Kong Gigi might be what you're looking for, but you refuse to buy Kong.
Why don't you check out Gary D. Storrick's site?
http://storrick.cnchost.com/...e/BelayDevices.shtml
He has write-ups for virtually every single belay device that has come on the market. There's at least a dozen or so other belay devices out there with an autoblock function.
Unfortunately, almost all of the other ones are somewhat hard to find outside of Europe.
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avalon420
Jan 30, 2010, 2:11 PM
Post #42 of 90
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rschap wrote: I’m disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didn’t have them in a reverso type device.
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Khoi
Jan 30, 2010, 2:30 PM
Post #43 of 90
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avalon420 wrote: rschap wrote: I’m disappointed with both. I hate this new trend of putting teeth on belay devices and wish they would come out with an option that didn’t have them in a reverso type device. Perhaps, my friend,you should try the Kong ghost. Wife got me one for christmas and it is da bees knees. Oh yeah, and thats MY favorite.
He refuses to buy Kong products. I look forward to hearing his reasons why.
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coolcat83
Jan 30, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #44 of 90
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currupt4130 wrote: rschap wrote: I think the ATC guide without teeth is exactly what I want but it’s just not made. So why not just clean the teeth off of it? A bastard file will take care of it in no time. Just go slow and be careful.
I was going to suggest that...besides the teeth will smooth out a bit over time, just climb a lot...maybe in sandy areas
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dr_feelgood
Jan 30, 2010, 9:26 PM
Post #45 of 90
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rschap wrote: granite_grrl wrote: So you're saying that you should be using it on the low friction side and your wife should use it on the high friction side? My wife has her own belay device. granite_grrl wrote: Too much friction in auto-block mode? The whole point is that the rope won't move....it's blocked. Perhaps just give the Guide to your wife and learn to use a munter. Do you know how these devices work? Or perhaps you don’t understand what I mean; I’m not talking about lowering in autoblock mode I’m talking about pulling slack. I’ve used an autoblock for years, I just don’t care for the way these devices work. I’m sure some people find it useful I personally don’t like it.
I drew this for you. I hope it helps.
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Attachments:
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ATC.bmp
(67.5 KB)
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Travis_22
Jan 31, 2010, 5:53 PM
Post #46 of 90
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I haven't used a reverso, but the BD guide isn't too smooth with the fatter ropes. I was just messing around with it in guide mode using a 10.5 rope. Seems like it would be quite the workout. I threw in another biner just to see if it would be smoother, not too much...
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tradrenn
Jan 31, 2010, 6:27 PM
Post #47 of 90
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lukebrown607 wrote: I bought the Reverso3, but i like the ATC guide better. What do you guys think?
Hey Luke, how are you dude ?
How is New York treating ya ?
Reverso 3 or BD Guide.
Seriously:
Reverso 3 is way better and yes your question is silly.
V.
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rschap
Jan 31, 2010, 6:45 PM
Post #48 of 90
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Travis_22 wrote: I haven't used a reverso, but the BD guide isn't too smooth with the fatter ropes. I was just messing around with it in guide mode using a 10.5 rope. Seems like it would be quite the workout. I threw in another biner just to see if it would be smoother, not too much...
That's all I was saying.
I don't buy Kong and I don't shop at Kmart. Maybe Kong has improved their products since the last time I looked at their catalog but it always looked like cheap shit to me.
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Khoi
Jan 31, 2010, 9:01 PM
Post #49 of 90
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rschap wrote: I don't buy Kong and I don't shop at Kmart. Maybe Kong has improved their products since the last time I looked at their catalog but it always looked like cheap shit to me.
Have you ever handled or used any of Kong's products? Or are you only going by nothing more than what you've looked at in their catalogue?
Wiregate biners look like cheap shit to a lot of people, but most of them are anything but.
Take a look at the Kong Ghost:
http://storrick.cnchost.com/...otBlockBelay862.html
It appears to have the characteristics you are looking for. If you think it looks like cheap shit, then I'll be superlatively curious on what you think make the Black Diamond ATC Guide and the Petzl Reverso 3 any different.
BTW, do you shop at Wal-Mart?
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Travis_22
Jan 31, 2010, 11:09 PM
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The Kong looks okay, it does somehow look cheap. Biggest thing for me is I am not a big fan of metal on metal. You could use something like a dmm belay master, but the metal there might pop that plastic spacer right out. I would hate to see some of the twist action that thing could do on a gate. May not be a problem, but it does remind me on an eight.
Does the kong have any sort of lowering feature for belaying a second?
(This post was edited by Travis_22 on Jan 31, 2010, 11:11 PM)
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