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Ronadon
Mar 9, 2010, 11:11 PM
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What do you guys prefer wire gate or solid gate quick draws? I'm going to be buying some pretty soon and would be curious to hear opinions. The lead routes at the gym I climb at have quick draws on them so mine will be pretty exclusively for outdoor use.
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rubber_man
Mar 9, 2010, 11:15 PM
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I use solid gates because I feel safer outdoors with them. They're usually a tad bit heavier than wire gates if you're concerned about that. But to each his own preference.
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kiwiprincess
Mar 9, 2010, 11:17 PM
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If you are doing ice and snow routes you will want wires as they don't freeze as easily.
Buy keylock if you can. I hate toothed biners as they catch on hangers, gear loops everything!
Otherwise I don't think it matters. i like Spirits as they last along time( keep opening and shutting without getting stiff) and are comfortable to clip for my hand size.
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shimanilami
Mar 9, 2010, 11:38 PM
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There have been numerous threads on this topic already. Do a search.
That said, it's largely a matter of preference. I prefer solid gates for sport draws and wire gates for all else. (Spirits and Heliums, respectively.)
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johnwesely
Mar 10, 2010, 12:12 AM
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I prefer wires for everything. They are lighter and easier to clip.
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patmay81
Mar 10, 2010, 1:04 AM
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i second the "do a search"
I prefer wires, i own and use both though.
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hafilax
Mar 10, 2010, 1:32 AM
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I don't really like clipping wire-gates to bolts. The possibility of the notch getting caught on the thin hanger or the wire getting hung up on the bolt is too high for my comfort. Otherwise I'm not all that picky.
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Ronadon
Mar 10, 2010, 1:36 AM
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Thanks for the wisdom guys. I will make sure to do a search for older posts.
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jbrown2
Mar 10, 2010, 8:01 AM
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Wire gates. Across the board. They are safer, lighter and just as strong. There is less gate slap so the rope will stay in the biner.
I climb on both but only because my old solid gates are fine. All new biners i get are wires unless i am getting lockers. locking wires would be awesome.
The fact that they have a notch is no big deal. i actually look at my carabiner when i am cliping it to a bolt or sling or whatever. if it gets caught (which really only happens when i use a stick clip) just adjust the thing.
Most important a wire gate is safer.
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USnavy
Mar 10, 2010, 9:02 AM
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jbrown2 wrote: Wire gates. Across the board. They are safer
Thus at the end of the day the safest draw is the one that is the correct length, the one that has the gates facing the right direction, and the one with the highest open gate strength.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Mar 10, 2010, 9:08 AM)
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I_do
Mar 10, 2010, 9:23 AM
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USnavy wrote: jbrown2 wrote: Wire gates. Across the board. They are safer Not across the board there not. Wiregates are far more likely to open from the gate getting caught on the rock then solid gates are. But solid gates are far from immune to such. I use mostly Petzl Spirits and I have fallen on a draw with the gate open four times so far in the past few years. In two cases the hanger side biner gate got hung up on a piece of rock and opened slightly, in one case the bottom biner gate got hung up on the rock and opened slightly and in the last case the bottom biner opened due to striking the rock well I fell. In only one of those cases would have wiregates helped. Thus at the end of the day the safest draw is the one that is the correct length, the one that has the gates facing the right direction, and the one with the highest open gate strength.
Isn't English your firts language? Have you been drinking?
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 2:48 PM
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Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route.
Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off).
To counter USnavy's comment wiregates will also have a lot less flutter during a fall. Not a big issue, but a bigger issue than USnavy's perceived notion that it'll open easier by scraping on the rock.
Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.
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yodadave
Mar 10, 2010, 3:10 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.
that or they are just willing to take the fall
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mr.tastycakes
Mar 10, 2010, 3:32 PM
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another vote for wiregates here. I just think they're marginally easier to clip. I freakin love the wild country heliums, but they're pricey.
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gmggg
Mar 10, 2010, 3:40 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off).
This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented.
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 3:42 PM
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yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.that or they are just willing to take the fall
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qtm
Mar 10, 2010, 3:47 PM
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gmggg wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off). This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented.
DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates.
Edited to add:
My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless.
(This post was edited by qtm on Mar 10, 2010, 3:53 PM)
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yodadave
Mar 10, 2010, 3:53 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.that or they are just willing to take the fall This coming from the 5.9 sport climber? Yeah, you obviously have a good handle on these things.
take it easy princess, Does it look like i update that log frequently?
Also that log does not list what i fall off. I'll have you know i've fallen off some serious 5.13s 
In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.
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greatview
Mar 10, 2010, 3:54 PM
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qtm wrote: gmggg wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off). This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented. DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates. Edited to add: My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless.
the new petzl ange are notchless, too.
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gmggg
Mar 10, 2010, 4:00 PM
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qtm wrote: gmggg wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off). This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented. DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates. Edited to add: My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless.
God damn you! Now I have to go out and spend money that I don't have...
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gmggg
Mar 10, 2010, 4:03 PM
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greatview wrote: qtm wrote: gmggg wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off). This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented. DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates. Edited to add: My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless. the new petzl ange are notchless, too.
Those aren't wire gates. No matter what they tell you.
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 4:16 PM
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yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.that or they are just willing to take the fall This coming from the 5.9 sport climber? Yeah, you obviously have a good handle on these things. take it easy princess, Does it look like i update that log frequently? Also that log does not list what i fall off. I'll have you know i've fallen off some serious 5.13s In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.
Maybe someday you'll understand what "working a route" really means.
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yodadave
Mar 10, 2010, 4:27 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.that or they are just willing to take the fall This coming from the 5.9 sport climber? Yeah, you obviously have a good handle on these things. take it easy princess, Does it look like i update that log frequently? Also that log does not list what i fall off. I'll have you know i've fallen off some serious 5.13s In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall. Hope you have fun falling off your 5.13s, I think I'll actually work things out and send some hard routes instead. Maybe someday you'll understand what "working a route" really means.
all this from someone who if i judge her by her logbook, as she has judged me, has her proudest ascent as hangdogging an 11.
Well yes clearly you are a vastly superior climber to me in every respect. So ignore my points about grabbing dogbones and have fun "working a route" (aka french freeing and hangdogging the crap out of moderates.
And in case you have the capacity to look past the flame throwing i will repeat
In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.
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cracklover
Mar 10, 2010, 4:33 PM
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gmggg wrote: qtm wrote: gmggg wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Notchless nose solid gate on the top to make it easier to clean from blots when you're done with the route. Wire gates for bottom biner for easy clipping (wire makes a nice flat spot that your finger won't roll off). This is correct. End of discussion; and it will be until the notchless wiregate is invented. DMM Shield and WC Heliums. I don't use them for sport draws, but all my trad racking biners are notchless wiregates. Edited to add: My draws do have notchless solid gates on the hanger side, but standard wires on the rope side. Easier to remove from the gear loop, easier for the 2nd to remove from the hanger. Rope side is standard wiregates, haven't felt the need to upgrade them to notchless. God damn you! Now I have to go out and spend money that I don't have...
Before you go and break your piggy-bank...
I still think granite_grrl's advice is the best. I own and use the Petzl Heliums, but I use them only on the rope end. On the bolt end, I still prefer to use solid gates.
It's not that Heliums aren't fantastic - they are. It's that at the end of the day, they're still a wiregate, and thus, more likely to get hung up on the bolt or hanger.
Besides, the minimal extra weight of one solidgate per draw just doesn't matter to me.
GO
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granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 4:55 PM
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yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: yodadave wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Don't go for those stupid thin dogbones. The thicker ones are easier to grab. This is not advocating to grab your draws all the time, but is a very useful tool when you start working really hard routes for you. Those who argue that you should never grab a draw don't work routes that are hard for them.that or they are just willing to take the fall This coming from the 5.9 sport climber? Yeah, you obviously have a good handle on these things. take it easy princess, Does it look like i update that log frequently? Also that log does not list what i fall off. I'll have you know i've fallen off some serious 5.13s In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall. Hope you have fun falling off your 5.13s, I think I'll actually work things out and send some hard routes instead. Maybe someday you'll understand what "working a route" really means. all this from someone who if i judge her by her logbook, as she has judged me, has her proudest ascent as hangdogging an 11. Well yes clearly you are a vastly superior climber to me in every respect. So ignore my points about grabbing dogbones and have fun "working a route" (aka french freeing and hangdogging the crap out of moderates. And in case you have the capacity to look past the flame throwing i will repeat In all seriousness i wasn't trying to flame you i was just saying some people prefer to take the fall over grabbing a draw. When in the past i've grabbed draws its been scarier than a clean fall.
For the love of pete, update your log. Last update was fall 2008, less than a year and a half ago. You've only had one season to improve since then! What else am I supposed to think?
It was an honest mistake, so please get your panties out of that bunch.
Understand that there's a lot more to working a route than falling over and over again till you finally hit the sequence right. You keep talking about grabbing draws when you're scared, THIS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'm talking about efficiently working out moves on a route you want to redpoint. I don't care if I'm a better climber than you or not. I just know how to work routes, and you are obviously very inefficient at it.
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