|
RolonRolon
Mar 19, 2010, 12:45 AM
Post #1 of 36
(3986 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 61
|
So I've just started making my own climbing holds (first molds are still literally hardening) and I keep wondering why climbing holds are going for $3-5 each. The materials are fairly cheap and the process isn't complicated.
What am I missing here? Why hasn't someone started a hold company and sold holds for $1-2 each?
|
|
|
|
|
davidnn5
Mar 19, 2010, 1:08 AM
Post #2 of 36
(3977 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2009
Posts: 348
|
RolonRolon wrote: So I've just started making my own climbing holds (first molds are still literally hardening) and I keep wondering why climbing holds are going for $3-5 each. The materials are fairly cheap and the process isn't complicated. What am I missing here? Why hasn't someone started a hold company and sold holds for $1-2 each?
I think the very short answer is: do it, please. As long as they're good (in a myriad of ways required).
The longer version is: are you sure your hold is a better or equal design/type/grip/strength to those who charge $1/hold more than you?
Edit: having regard to overheads - making a $1 hold is very different to making 400,000 $1 holds. Manufacturing space and capacity to deal with peaks/troughs, elasticity of demand, profit, advertising, etc etc.
(This post was edited by davidnn5 on Mar 19, 2010, 1:14 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
airscape
Mar 19, 2010, 2:50 AM
Post #3 of 36
(3956 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4240
|
davidnn5 wrote: RolonRolon wrote: So I've just started making my own climbing holds (first molds are still literally hardening) and I keep wondering why climbing holds are going for $3-5 each. The materials are fairly cheap and the process isn't complicated. What am I missing here? Why hasn't someone started a hold company and sold holds for $1-2 each? I think the very short answer is: do it, please. As long as they're good (in a myriad of ways required). The longer version is: are you sure your hold is a better or equal design/type/grip/strength to those who charge $1/hold more than you? Edit: having regard to overheads - making a $1 hold is very different to making 400,000 $1 holds. Manufacturing space and capacity to deal with peaks/troughs, elasticity of demand, profit, advertising, etc etc.
I cannot see how making 1 x $1 is going to cost less per hold than making 400000 of them you have waaaay more overheads/part on small qty.
There's a little thing called Mass production... ask any chinese person.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 19, 2010, 4:27 AM
Post #4 of 36
(3937 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17347
|
RolonRolon wrote: What am I missing here? Why hasn't someone started a hold company and sold holds for $1-2 each?
Right.
I would generally think the goal of forming a business is to make a profit, earn a living.
I don't think the hold mfg companies are interested in non-profit status.
I'd want something on the order of 50-75% markup over cost, on anything like this, for list price. Might even go 100% if the competition is light.
Tell you what - as you make your first batch, factor in, um, $30 an hour for labor, taxes, etc. Now pay for some distribution - those things are heavy and UPS won't deliver them for free.
Marketing. Book keeping. Sales. Fulfillment. That shit adds up. Well, you get the picture.
If you can do it cheaper/better, the Gyms Peeps will flock to your door. See if you can do it! But don't forget to pay yourself!
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
ax
Mar 19, 2010, 9:30 AM
Post #5 of 36
(3873 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 155
|
davidnn5 wrote: ... etc etc. |
|
|
|
|
edge
Mar 19, 2010, 9:40 AM
Post #6 of 36
(3860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 8830
|
If the first holds are still hardening, then I respectfully state that you have a lot to learn. Factor in the learning curve there, and if you do end up with usable holds, are they better than others on the market? Even for your price?
They will have no track record for durability, so many will be skeptical to buying them.
Shipping is expensive. So is advertising; the best way to get hands-on word of mouth buzz generated is by giving them to local gyms for high profile comps or just because. There goes more profits.
There is a lot more to the process than making molds and pouring in the goop.
(This post was edited by edge on Mar 19, 2010, 9:42 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
RolonRolon
Mar 19, 2010, 10:36 AM
Post #7 of 36
(3824 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 61
|
Yeah, I admit to knowing nothing of the business but just after buying up the supplies to make my first batch I realized how cheap it is. Why are the hold companies charging such a ludicrous amount? Why doesn't one of the companies drop their price (they already have the mold, infrastructure, etc, set up) and capture the whole market.
|
|
|
|
|
dynosore
Mar 19, 2010, 10:56 AM
Post #8 of 36
(3808 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1738
|
I see a couple possibilities here:
1) the climbing hold industry is secretly in cohoots to restrict the supply of holds and grossly overcharge
2) You're smarter than anyone in the industry and should capitalize on your brilliance
3) you have no idea how much overhead a small business can have, and even though people already explained it to you, you still don't get it
Hmmm I'm going to go with #3
In case you missed it:
Organization fees
Wages
Workers comp
SS/FICA
Rent mfg facility
Insurance
Warehousing
Distribution
Shipping
Advertising
Promotinal give-aways
Health/life insurance if you're the owner
Raw materials
Molds
Design work
Rejects
Returns
Bad accounts receivable
etc. etc.
|
|
|
|
|
qtm
Mar 19, 2010, 10:57 AM
Post #9 of 36
(3805 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2004
Posts: 546
|
Antitrust laws.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Mar 19, 2010, 11:11 AM
Post #10 of 36
(3791 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
As others have said - the price of holds reflects not only the material cost, but labor.
When you say $1 a hold - I bet you didn't count your time.
Compare this to, say, a restaurant. Even at a basic level you will probably pay more than three times the material cost for your food. Without tips. Yes, you can make it yourself for less than you pay someone else to do it, at least in direct costs. It's your choice of how you want to spend your time
Making some holds is fun, and can teach you some of the things to look for in the commercial ones, and can provide variety on your wall. But, after a while, you'll probably want a mix of types, and be willing to pay fair prices for them.
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Mar 19, 2010, 12:10 PM
Post #11 of 36
(3756 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
I think everyone is missing something here, or maybe its just me. holds cost WAY more than $5 each. unless we are talking about foot jibs only. a good set (4) of jugs costs at least $35.
and yes you can probably make them for cheaper, but you cant sell them for cheaper.
|
|
|
|
|
RolonRolon
Mar 19, 2010, 12:57 PM
Post #12 of 36
(3727 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 61
|
For the record, I realize the costs of doing business are higher than just material costs. But because I don't know the business like the rest of you, I can only make assumptions and I really think hold companies are over charging like woe.
|
|
|
|
|
davidnn5
Mar 19, 2010, 12:58 PM
Post #13 of 36
(3725 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2009
Posts: 348
|
Re: Airscape - what everyone else said. Dude hasn't factored paying for a number of things he's not currently paying for (other than the physical substance required to make a hold). Mass production reduces costs, but those costs are going to be a lot more than for just resin to start with.
I still hope he puts together a business model and starts making cheaper and better holds than everyone else. Competition is good.
|
|
|
|
|
davidnn5
Mar 19, 2010, 12:59 PM
Post #14 of 36
(3720 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 7, 2009
Posts: 348
|
What are your assumptions about the costs involved? Show us the numbers man!
|
|
|
|
|
Wunderkind
Mar 19, 2010, 1:15 PM
Post #19 of 36
(3686 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2008
Posts: 120
|
Everyone here is giving you bad advice.
The reason they cost what they do is because Jason Kehl says that is the right price, and nobody questions him because his hair is awesome.
If you want to start making the market for climbing holds, you're going to have to make some seriously risky hair styling moves and hope that they pay off.
Good luck. Allez.
|
|
|
|
|
RolonRolon
Mar 19, 2010, 1:15 PM
Post #20 of 36
(3679 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 61
|
If I show you the numbers, everyone will be starting up. Gotta make 'em work a bit , ya know? Will be a fun thread to come back to when I'm a trillionare from making my $1 holds.
|
|
|
|
|
RolonRolon
Mar 19, 2010, 3:21 PM
Post #22 of 36
(3629 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 61
|
already bankrupt so boo yaa.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Mar 19, 2010, 3:42 PM
Post #23 of 36
(3617 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
RolonRolon wrote: already bankrupt so boo yaa.
Excellent - that saves a lot of time!
|
|
|
|
|
avalon420
Mar 19, 2010, 3:55 PM
Post #24 of 36
(3610 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 275
|
dingus wrote: RolonRolon wrote: What am I missing here? Why hasn't someone started a hold company and sold holds for $1-2 each? Right. I would generally think the goal of forming a business is to make a profit, earn a living. I don't think the hold mfg companies are interested in non-profit status. I'd want something on the order of 50-75% markup over cost, on anything like this, for list price. Might even go 100% if the competition is light. Tell you what - as you make your first batch, factor in, um, $30 an hour for labor, taxes, etc. Now pay for some distribution - those things are heavy and UPS won't deliver them for free. Marketing. Book keeping. Sales. Fulfillment. That shit adds up. Well, you get the picture. If you can do it cheaper/better, the Gyms Peeps will flock to your door. See if you can do it! But don't forget to pay yourself! DMT  Show us how its done!! I just bought a house and have been DREAMING of the day i could build a synthetic boulder in my back yard. Good luck,and I look forward to a few sample packs of your holds
|
|
|
|
|
rschap
Mar 19, 2010, 9:53 PM
Post #25 of 36
(3539 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 590
|
I’ll tell you what, my wife and I just bought the climbing gym over here in Grand Junction and we’ll be your first customer. I’d like $5 worth of holds. If we think the holds are any good we’ll let everyone know. I’m not kidding or being a dick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
