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gbclimber


Mar 21, 2010, 11:21 PM
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Full strength haul loops
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I've been climbing for several years now, and I still don't know what the purpose for having a 15kn rated haul loop is for. The only thing I use mine for his for bringing up a second rope, but it's never weighted or anything while I'm climbing....so just curious, what's it for?


bhp


Mar 22, 2010, 12:10 AM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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I'm quite a bit heavier than my climbing partner, so when I'm leading he'll tie into a tree or something with his haul loop, so he doesn't get yanked into the wall during a fall. It allows a more natural stance than anchoring to something behind you with the belay loop.


USnavy


Mar 22, 2010, 1:29 AM
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Re: [bhp] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Its for safety (at least in part). I often see climbers clip into their haul loop with webbing at the end of a cliff to stop them from falling off well belaying from the top. Many of those climbers don't have full strength haul loops. One day they will wish they did...

It may also be for reasons similar to the concept of the Safe-Tech harness. They make everything full strength so no matter what you clip into you probably wont die.

There may be additional reasons but those reasons listed above apply.


bill413


Mar 22, 2010, 6:28 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Yes, a lot of folks will anchor via the haul loop. If you do that, you obviously want one that is full strength.
I really don't like to clip in behind my back because:
1) I want things up front where I can see what's going on.
2) I want things up front so I can handle it without being a controtionist.
3) It friggin hurts when you are holding someone heavy and your harness is trying to become a straight line between that anchor behind you & the heavy weight in front.


dbogardus


Mar 22, 2010, 7:04 AM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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crate stacking


bill413


Mar 22, 2010, 7:28 AM
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Re: [dbogardus] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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dbogardus wrote:
crate stacking
d'oh!


jt512


Mar 22, 2010, 7:54 AM
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Re: [bhp] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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bhp wrote:
I'm quite a bit heavier than my climbing partner, so when I'm leading he'll tie into a tree or something with his haul loop, so he doesn't get yanked into the wall during a fall. It allows a more natural stance than anchoring to something behind you with the belay loop.

The purpose of a full-strength haul loop is not so that you can misuse your harness.

The full-strength haul loop is for attaching a second rope. On some routes two ropes may be required for descent, in which case the climbers' lives may depend on the second rope. Thus it needs to be clipped into something stronger than a gear loop. Maybe full strength is overkill, but we're talking a few grams.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 22, 2010, 8:27 AM)


fresh


Mar 22, 2010, 8:02 AM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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the only reason I've ever heard for this is on page 104 in extreme alpinism by mark twight:

"Make sure the waist belt has a full-strength tie-in loop in the back. At some point you may want to clip in to the belay anchor while facing out to belay the second or to allow him to jug on a rope fixed to your harness. This situation can occur when an adequate belay anchor is absent, but your stance can support the second's weight."


acorneau


Mar 22, 2010, 8:23 AM
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Re: [fresh] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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fresh wrote:
"Make sure the waist belt has a full-strength tie-in loop in the back. At some point you may want to clip in to the belay anchor while facing out to belay the second or to allow him to jug on a rope fixed to your harness. This situation can occur when an adequate belay anchor is absent, but your stance can support the second's weight."


Jugging on a rope that's connected only to a rear haul loop?

F*$% that!!!


(This post was edited by acorneau on Mar 22, 2010, 8:55 AM)


chanceboarder


Mar 22, 2010, 8:48 AM
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Re: [fresh] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Full strength HAUL LOOPS

not a full strength anchor loop
not a full strength belay loop
not a full strength attach the jugging line for your second to ascend and pull both your dumbasses off the mountain loop


edge


Mar 22, 2010, 8:59 AM
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Re: [chanceboarder] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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I highly suspect that the "full strength haul loop" designation is mostly a marketing gimmick.

I mean, what is the difference between a "full strength" and a regular haul loop, a couple extra bar tacks and perhaps 5 cents extra in webbing? Throw those in and voila!!! you can now market it as such and differentiate your harness from the bulk of other harnesses available.

Having said that, I personally will never buy a harness without a full strength haul loop. Why wouldn't I?


Gmburns2000


Mar 22, 2010, 9:16 AM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me. I tend to use my belay loop up front 99% of the time, but some circumstances allow for easier positioning with the rear haul loop.

I can't recall a time when I've used only the rear loop, though. I'm pretty sure I've been connected up front, too, with one serving primarily as a back up.


jt512


Mar 22, 2010, 9:22 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me.

Another gumby heard from.

Jay


Gmburns2000


Mar 22, 2010, 9:52 AM
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Re: [jt512] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me.

Another gumby heard from.

Jay

another asshole taking things out of context by leaving certain info out to accomodate his ego.

go move a fucking couch.


nh_ranger


Mar 22, 2010, 9:54 AM
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Re: [jt512] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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So you're belaying a second whilst facing away from the anchor, huh?


hafilax


Mar 22, 2010, 9:59 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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I used the haul loop to anchor for a top rope once and only once. When the climber weighted the rope, my harness painfully squeezed my sides. Never again! Now the haul loop generally holds my shoes, water bottle or second rope.


jt512


Mar 22, 2010, 10:03 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me.

Another gumby heard from.

Jay

another asshole taking things out of context by leaving certain info out to accomodate his ego.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me. I tend to use my belay loop up front 99% of the time, but some circumstances allow for easier positioning with the rear haul loop.

I can't recall a time when I've used only the rear loop, though. I'm pretty sure I've been connected up front, too, with one serving primarily as a back up.

Another gumby heard from.

Better?

Jay


Gmburns2000


Mar 22, 2010, 10:12 AM
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Re: [hafilax] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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hafilax wrote:
I used the haul loop to anchor for a top rope once and only once. When the climber weighted the rope, my harness painfully squeezed my sides. Never again! Now the haul loop generally holds my shoes, water bottle or second rope.

I've only ever used it to belay the leader on a multi-pitch route while enroute when a fall that could have brought me into the rock would have been painful. I might have done this two or three times and each time I was anchored in up front with only one sling behind me as a sort of directional. It worked quite well and was not uncomfortable at all.

Simply put, they were awkward belay stances.


Gmburns2000


Mar 22, 2010, 10:13 AM
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Re: [jt512] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me.

Another gumby heard from.

Jay

another asshole taking things out of context by leaving certain info out to accomodate his ego.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
I've used mine to anchor to the rock when I wanted to face away from the anchor and toward my second and / or the best place to anchor me down was behind me. I tend to use my belay loop up front 99% of the time, but some circumstances allow for easier positioning with the rear haul loop.

I can't recall a time when I've used only the rear loop, though. I'm pretty sure I've been connected up front, too, with one serving primarily as a back up.

Another gumby heard from.

Better?

Jay

If you say so.


Partner cracklover


Mar 22, 2010, 11:25 AM
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Re: [bhp] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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bhp wrote:
I'm quite a bit heavier than my climbing partner, so when I'm leading he'll tie into a tree or something with his haul loop, so he doesn't get yanked into the wall during a fall. It allows a more natural stance than anchoring to something behind you with the belay loop.

Wait 'til he has to catch a hard lead fall and cracks three ribs. Then he'll see that a "more natural stance" is a really stupid reason to misuse his harness.

How about this crazy idea: If the anchor is a ways behind you, stand slightly sideways, with the anchor rope running down over one hip/thigh? Or if the anchor is nearly below you, run the anchor strand down between your feet.

GO


Partner cracklover


Mar 22, 2010, 11:31 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
Its for safety (at least in part). I often see climbers clip into their haul loop with webbing at the end of a cliff to stop them from falling off well belaying from the top. Many of those climbers don't have full strength haul loops. One day they will wish they did...

See my last post ^^^

Bad idea with or without a full-strenghth haul loop. Although at least they'll only be in pain, rather than actually injured, since the forces generated in a TR fall aren't bad.

In reply to:
It may also be for reasons similar to the concept of the Safe-Tech harness. They make everything full strength so no matter what you clip into you probably wont die.

The only positive I see about those is that you're guaranteed not to wind up with one of those harnesses like one or two of the BD ones back in the day where the gear loops were so flimsy that a cam catching could rip it out, sending a full gear loop worth of stuff cascading down into the void. Aside from that, they seem heavy and dumb to me, but if you like it, fine for you.

In reply to:
There may be additional reasons but those reasons listed above apply.

I didn't see any good reasons listed above.

GO


kachoong


Mar 22, 2010, 2:03 PM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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gbclimber wrote:
I've been climbing for several years now, and I still don't know what the purpose for having a 15kn rated haul loop is for. The only thing I use mine for his for bringing up a second rope, but it's never weighted or anything while I'm climbing....so just curious, what's it for?

Five good uses:

1) To descend Hoover Dam using the Aussie technique.
2) In case you put your harness on backwards you don't have to waste time changing it.
3) If you pass out or die they use it to retrieve your body.
4) Tie your crag dog to in the event you need to guide him/her over a mountain pass.
5) To clip a 3000 lb chalk bag to. Just don't jiggle too much or it might break it!


bennydh


Mar 22, 2010, 3:17 PM
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Re: [kachoong] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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I've attached a climber who just followed a climb to my rear haul loop, because the area behind me had more room, and the master point of my anchor was a bit crowded. Its a secure point for someone to have a good level of security while transitioning to their own anchor points.

Its also good if you are attaching precious heavy cargo, that could snag and break older/thinner gear loops. I.E: trailing a second rope that is 70 meters, while there is rope drag or objects could get snagged.

Jay already mentioned the latter, so I guess that makes two really good uses for a full strength haul loop.


shimanilami


Mar 22, 2010, 4:30 PM
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Re: [gbclimber] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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It all began innocently enough.

"I'll send the peeyotch with both hands tied behind my back."

"And I'll belay that peeyotch with both hands tied behind my back."

"Word."

"Yo."

And the rest is history.


bennydh


Mar 22, 2010, 4:45 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] Full strength haul loops [In reply to]
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Perhaps it also allows for more mobility, and greater security, whilst clucking?

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