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jacobbelsher
Mar 26, 2010, 9:48 PM
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Hi. I talked to a guy last night who mentioned that he thought the 12+ rating in the Free and Clean Zion guide was excessive. He compared the crux pitches to some IC 12 or 12- routes, and encouraged me to give it a try. This has got me thinking that I might give it a shot next year (I started onsighting 11s this year). My question to you is: do you agree with this guys assessment, that the climb is easier than graded? Also, this would be a mission for me and I would plan on training at the creek in preparation; any suggestions on good routes there, to simulate Moonlight? I was thinking Way Rambo, maybe? Coyne Crack? Any other perspective/advice is appreciated.
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bandycoot
Mar 26, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Ask me two Monday's from now if the weather is good. 
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jacobbelsher
Mar 27, 2010, 12:32 AM
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i will do that. good luck. weather will be great, i think.
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angry
Mar 27, 2010, 1:08 AM
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So I've been a dedicated creek climber for a while. I'd gotten to the point where I could handily onsight most 5.12 (not 12-) routes of most sizes at the creek. Those that didn't get onsighted, I'd send in never more than 3 goes.
Meanwhile, I was never ever a sport climber. I'd climb sport near my home on the occasional off day, bored day, or with a girl. Aside from that I only sport climbed sporatically. I think 12a was my best onsight and I think I got a soft 12c. I never ever actually focused on a project that would take substantial trips back.
So how did my first trip to MB go?
Nailed all the down low pitches, including the 11c traverse. I got past the rocker block clean after a little futzing around. The crux pitch tore me a new asshole. It's mostly green alien sized dihedral with a slight overhang. For a pure crack climber (at the time, I was pure as the driven snow), this was a balls to the fucking wall crazy tips crack. If you've got any sport skillz at all, IE some mutha fuckin grip strength, it would not be that bad at all. Still very go-ey but very doable.
The next pitch was more .5's than .3's but same idea. Hard to jam straight in but really not to bad to lieback. I didn't send this pitch either but I only had to hang once due to endurance.
The 12- pitch above that was an easy onsight.
The routes second crux is a 12b slightly overhanging finger crack, the pitch to put the strong sporto's who crush the true crux into their place. This wasn't an easy onsight for me, but I did get it. I was very happy with that.
By the time the last hard pitch rolled around I was fully gassed so I french free/aided it. From the looks of it, it would be hard face climbing. This is known as the nutter pitch.
My second trip, 6 months later saw me sending the whole route with three falls on the crux and one fall on the nutter pitch due to pure exhaustion.
The reason why I failed, twice (although both tries remain as some of the best climbing days of my life so fail? whatever), is the same reason Josh is going to rage that route. I did not have enough forearms to do the route. I was not a good enough sport climber to send Moonlight Buttress. Let that sink in. I'll repeat it if it helps.
Now that the nearest trad or even multipitch is a plane ride from me, I only sport climb. All the sport routes are severely overhung like RRG but chossy and humid. For the first time in my life, I've got real arms. I can actually hang on to shit, I don't have to jam everything.
So on to training. Make sure that you can crush 12a to 12b at the creek or those pure crack pitches will eat you alive. When you're not at the creek, make god damned sure you're projecting 12+ to mid 13 sport climbs very regularly. Ideally at the RRG, Rifle, or Maple. but I don't know where you live.
Good luck. I'll take my new found sport abilities and put them back on real climbs (er I mean trad) soon enough too.
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angry
Mar 27, 2010, 1:16 AM
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Just realized that I didn't answer your question.
Here is my opinion based on my strengths (but remember, we all have different strengths and a lot of people who climb at the creek a lot LOVE to beat their chest/meat about how overgraded things are. I certainly did).
P1,2 Go direct, not the left way Mid 10 (do this in one pitch)
P3 10c one move wonder
P4, 11c (deal with drag and climb all the way to the rocker block)
P5 12a , one move wonder with bolt 11b/c crack to anchor
P6 12c/d but feels harder if jammed straight in, easier if you rehearse any moves.
P7, Enough 12a moves to feel 12b-
P8, Creek 12a but real 11c/d
P9 Real 12b
P10 12a (though the sport climbers tell me it's easier and if you don't have nuts NOT CAMS ready to place, you'll get whooped).
P11 10b/c
Have fun.
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jacobbelsher
Mar 27, 2010, 2:02 AM
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thanks angry.
sport climb harder, eh? looks like i've got my work cut out for me!
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bandycoot
Apr 6, 2010, 4:35 PM
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I sport climb and trad climb pretty well, but it was the off-finger cracks that got me. I've done all kinds of cracks, from tips to offwidth, but it's really hard to find pure off-fingers cracks to train on in San Diego. Also, I used offwidth technique to make a few short sections easier. If you can't onsight (at least) 5.12a occasionally, I wouldn't recommend this route. Wait til you're strong and then give it a go. Also, get strong on cracks and face. I onsighted the "crux" pitch, but the next one was a wicked thrash in a flared corner with a 0.5 camalot crack in the back that was just awkward as hell. I found that one to be the crux for me. Also, the 5.12b splitter off the anchor up higher got me because of finger size and I was just damn tired. Pretty much onsighted the rest of the route though. The "boulder problem" off the rocker blocker wasn't too bad since I'm 6' tall. My buddy had to literally jump for the first hold which was fun to watch. I could reach it standing. If you have any specific questions, ask away while the memory is fresh.
Oh yeah, the gear beta on Mountain Project is MAJOR overkill unless this route shuts you down and you drop into french freeing.
Josh
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grahamh
Jul 25, 2010, 1:59 PM
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Do you recomend pre-slinging nuts for the upper 12 pitch? What size?
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bandycoot
Jul 25, 2010, 2:50 PM
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Nope, not at all. The pitch is just slightly off-vertical so it's not too pumpy, and I think I only used 2 nuts. You can still get cams in through the "nutting" section which isn't all that long. To say the least, this isn't the pitch you should be worried about...
I wrote a trip report up of my outing here:
http://pullharder.org/...ttress-free-attempt/
Josh
(This post was edited by bandycoot on Jul 25, 2010, 2:51 PM)
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