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Razmodius
Mar 30, 2010, 5:42 AM
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Hey guys,
I've started climbing about just over a year ago, just a hobby at first to a real passion nowadays. My hardest redpoint on lead right now is a 5.11a. I would like to send a 5.12a by the end of the summer.
Is that possible with commitment?
I boulder 3 times a week, and weight train 3times a week.
If someone could point me to a nice workout I could do at the gym, because right now what I'm doing is just overall fitness, not climbing oriented.
Lately I've been experiencing pain in my right elbow( I've had tennis elbows before). I've been told to do reverse curls at the gym and it should help. Anyone got other good tips?
Whats the best way to build endurance and finger strengh(pinch)?
Cheers
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bradley3297
Mar 30, 2010, 6:24 AM
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I guarentee that if you climb 12a after a year your gonna have alot of injuries. tendons dont strengthen as fast as muscles. keeping a overall muscle balance will help though. so train the muscles you dont use often during climbing. are you talking indoor climbing or outdoors. damn good job getting to 11a outdoors if thats what you have done after one year. impressive.
(This post was edited by bradley3297 on Mar 30, 2010, 6:26 AM)
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jt512
Mar 30, 2010, 6:27 AM
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bradley3297 wrote: I guarentee that if you climb 12a after a year your gonna have alot of injuries.
That's ridiculous. 11a to 12a in 6 months is an attainable goal with discipline and dedication.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 30, 2010, 6:28 AM)
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JAB
Mar 30, 2010, 6:48 AM
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If you are motivated and have the time to do a lot of training, your main focus should be on minimising the risk of injury. By climbing 5 or 6 days a week you could well reach 5.12 within 6 months, but if you are not careful, you will end up injured much before that.
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bradley3297
Mar 30, 2010, 1:24 PM
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I agree its attainable. didnt say it wasnt. what i say is the risk of injury is very high.
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angry
Mar 30, 2010, 1:31 PM
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Find yourself an overhanging juggy 12a.
Try it about once a week.
You'll finish it in no time.
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scottek67
Mar 30, 2010, 2:36 PM
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angry wrote: Find yourself an overhanging juggy 12a. Try it about once a week. You'll finish it in no time.
6 of these and do it today!
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lena_chita
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Mar 30, 2010, 3:28 PM
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Razmodius wrote: I've started climbing about just over a year ago, just a hobby at first to a real passion nowadays. My hardest redpoint on lead right now is a 5.11a. I would like to send a 5.12a by the end of the summer. Is that possible with commitment?
Possible, but whether doable for you personally, or not-- I don't know.
Razmodius wrote: I boulder 3 times a week, and weight train 3times a week. If someone could point me to a nice workout I could do at the gym, because right now what I'm doing is just overall fitness, not climbing oriented.
Cut down on weight training. Weight training has it's uses, but you probably would benefit more from climbing-specific training at this point, esp. working on your technique, since you are a new climber still.
Also, if your goal is to send 5.12a (e.i. rope climb) you need to do more than bouldering, or you won't ever have endurance to do a route with more than a few moves.
Read Self-Coached Climber book, it should be helpful in evaluating your relative strengths/weakensses and coming up with training plan.
The basic idea of how you get to 5.12a is very simple (redpoint pyramid explained in SCC): if your best redpoint is 5.11a, pick a 5.11b climb, and work on it until you get it. In the meantime, also fill up your pyramid, so you have 2x5.11a, 4x5.10d, and 8x5.10c. Most of the climbs in the 5.10c/5.10d range should be onsights, and the 5.11a/b shouldn't take you too many tries. If they take more than, say, 2-5 tries, and you aren't onsighting most of the climbs in the 5.10c/d range, then your goal of 5.12a by the end of the year may be too ambitious.
Once you have the 5.11b at the top of your pyramid, and it is filled up, pick 5.11c to work on, and another 5.11b, and fill up the additional 5.11a's and 5.10d's in between-- and so on.
By the time you get to 5.12a as the top of your pyramid, you would have a dozen or so 5.11s... If you think about it, a goal of sending 14-20 5.11s in 6 months is not that outrageous... and it would give you a good base to work on 5.12a.
Of course, there is an alternative approach: find a 5.12a that appeals to you, and looks doable, and throw yourself at it. Keep trying it, and if you have enough determination and strength, you would get it, too.
Razmodius wrote: Lately I've been experiencing pain in my right elbow( I've had tennis elbows before). I've been told to do reverse curls at the gym and it should help. Anyone got other good tips?
Reverse curls are among the exercises that PTs recommend for certain types of elbow pain. but it would depend on what your problem is exactly, and someone with a medical training would be a better person to ask.
However, the elbow pain is likely an indication that you are doing something wrong. Too much too soon, too much of the same kind of moves, etc.
Razmodius wrote: Whats the best way to build endurance and finger strengh(pinch)?
Endurance: Look up ARC. Climb longer routes instead of just bouldering.
Pinch strength-- climb routes/problems with a lot of pinches. Use pinch grips on systems board.
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jt512
Mar 30, 2010, 5:50 PM
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bradley3297 wrote: I agree its attainable. didnt say it wasnt. what i say is the risk of injury is very high.
I didn't say you thought it wasn't attainable. I called bullshit on your comment that he is going to be "guaranteed" a lot of injuries. That said, the fact that he has a history of epicondylitis is a concern.
Jay
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jt512
Mar 30, 2010, 5:54 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Of course, there is an alternative approach: find a 5.12a that appeals to you, and looks doable, and throw yourself at it. Keep trying it, and if you have enough determination and strength, you would get it, too.
But, to the OP, Lena is not recommending this approach. This is how you get injured, and even if you do send your 5.12 project, your overall climbing level will likely go down in the process. It's is crucial to systematically build a base.
Jay
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Razmodius
Mar 31, 2010, 5:29 AM
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Thanks guys for all the advice.
Yes, I'm talking outdoors. I unfortunately do not have access to a rope gym. Thats why I boulder so much( my blessing for strengh, curse for endurance)
Once the weather finally decides to cooperate, I'll be able to go outside alot( 3-4times a week, 4-5 good crag in a 15min driving range)
Unfortunately I don't think my hands can survive bouldering 5 times a week, as my body will fall appart, and the skin on my hand is gonna be gone. Tape will only do so much. That's why I go to the gym too.
I'm probably gonna end up sending a short 12a with a power crux for my first 12, as that is definitly my strengh. However I'm trying really hard to be more of a balanced climber as even tho it's fun to do overhanging stuff, I love the rest too. I've managed to close the gap to 1 or 2 letters, and it used to be wayyy worse.
Hopefully I'll have a good summer and I'll reach my objective without getting hurt|
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jt512
Mar 31, 2010, 5:42 AM
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Razmodius wrote: Thanks guys for all the advice. Yes, I'm talking outdoors. I unfortunately do not have access to a rope gym. Thats why I boulder so much( my blessing for strengh, curse for endurance) Once the weather finally decides to cooperate, I'll be able to go outside alot( 3-4times a week, 4-5 good crag in a 15min driving range) Unfortunately I don't think my hands can survive bouldering 5 times a week, as my body will fall appart, and the skin on my hand is gonna be gone. Tape will only do so much. That's why I go to the gym too. I'm probably gonna end up sending a short 12a with a power crux for my first 12, as that is definitly my strengh. However I'm trying really hard to be more of a balanced climber as even tho it's fun to do overhanging stuff, I love the rest too. I've managed to close the gap to 1 or 2 letters, and it used to be wayyy worse. Hopefully I'll have a good summer and I'll reach my objective without getting hurt|
The best advice you've gotten in this thread is to get The Self-Coached Climber.
Jay
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ceebo
Mar 31, 2010, 10:28 AM
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I had 100 volts of pain shooting through my elbos day after day..
So for 1 month now i do 12 reverse wrists, then 20 push ups. After that i use 2 bowling balls (the small ones old people play with ;p) and i put arms out jesus style and rotate my hands 20 circles one way and 20 the other. Another 20 push ups and then i do the elastic band thing over my fingers, 20 openers on each hand. I do it 3 times a week.
I do shit loads of endurence, did not do much hard climbing for maybe 2 month, and then i got on a f7a that use to own me and i done it well within reason. Not sure what to do now, i guess ill just make the endurence harder, hopfully get some more 7a's in the bag and then attempt a 7b later in the year
My elbos are no longer giving me pain as a result of backing off and training endurence (it seems to help all round climbing much more than going full on anyway), i think its the most importent thing to consider.. its not worth walking around in agony just to climb a number.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 31, 2010, 10:30 AM)
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angry
Mar 31, 2010, 11:19 AM
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jt512 wrote: The best advice you've gotten in this thread is to get The Self-Coached Climber. Jay
I don't know where the OP lives but that book is impractical almost everywhere. If I lived in Lexington, Rifle, or Ceuse, I might look more into it. Other than that, it's a good idea that's hard to realize without OCD.
Where I live, Bermuda, we've got routes up to 13b but the sheer number of routes don't exist. We project shit and it works.
Back in CO, there were a ton of routes next my place, maybe 2000, so it would have worked except I had a job. So did all my friends. They had girlfriends. Sometimes I did too. Sometimes they'd want to go skiing. Sometimes I was sick. All that pretty much works together to make it impossible to get the sheer numbers in. I'd end up doing the only hard route on the cliff of easy lines, back at crags I'd been to way too many times. If I earnestly started up a project I never could coordinate schedules with anyone who wanted to climb the route.
So yeah, unless you can find a partner with the exact goals and time off as you or a belayer with unlimited patience and no personal goals, the book doesn't work. Not because it's bad advice but because it's impractical.
Considering the OP is mostly a boulderer AND has sent 11a, I'm assuming he's bouldering moves that are far harder than 12a sport.
This goes back to my original suggestion, find a 12a and project it. It's not like throwing himself at this route is going to take long. Only long enough to learn the moves and gain the efficiency and endurance to send it. Shit, it'll probably be easier than his typical bouldering circuit.
Injury my ass.
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johnwesely
Mar 31, 2010, 12:12 PM
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Razmodius wrote: Thanks guys for all the advice. Yes, I'm talking outdoors. I unfortunately do not have access to a rope gym. Thats why I boulder so much( my blessing for strengh, curse for endurance)
It is actually not really that big of a curse, and it may be a blessing. A rope gym might only be 30 feet tall, and you have to have someone who is willing to belay you all day. You are actually much better off doing endurance workouts on the boulder if there are not a ton of people around.
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jt512
Mar 31, 2010, 5:03 PM
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angry wrote: So yeah, unless you can find a partner with the exact goals and time off as you or a belayer with unlimited patience and no personal goals, the book doesn't work. Not because it's bad advice but because it's impractical.
I've never had a partner with the exact same goals, or time off from work, or lack of other goals, and I live in SoCal, which has a dearth of sport routes, yet I have never found the book to be impractical.
In reply to: This goes back to my original suggestion, find a 12a and project it. It's not like throwing himself at this route is going to take long.
If you're right, and he can send it quickly, then that will work for him. If you're wrong, and it takes him a long time to send it, then he will be working the same moves over and over again for weeks or months. Needless to say, that is exactly how you get an overuse injury, like tendinitis. Considering he already has a history of tendinitis, he needs to be extra careful. Additionally, getting obsessed about a project that is way above your level can lead to a decline in your overall climbing level. You go into the project as a 5.11a climber, and you come out a 5.10a climber who has sent a single 5.12a. It took me years to learn that lesson.
Edit: Upon further reflection, I disagree with your advice, no matter how strong a boulderer he is. He'd still be better off investing time in building a base of 5.11 routes, rather than jumping right on a 5.12a project. He needs to build a base of endurance anyway, and the experience of sending numerous routes will enlarge his repertoire of moves and improve his rock-reading skills. This will have greater pay-off than just jumping on a 5.12a project. If his bouldering has paid off as much as you assume, then he will move through the pyramid quickly anyway.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 31, 2010, 6:39 PM)
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k.l.k
Mar 31, 2010, 5:56 PM
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jt512 wrote: bradley3297 wrote: I guarentee that if you climb 12a after a year your gonna have alot of injuries. That's ridiculous. 11a to 12a in 6 months is an attainable goal with discipline and dedication.
I think the concern was more nearly that the op'd been climbing a year in total, mostly bouldering on plastic. the guy's already got tendonitis.
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gene
Mar 31, 2010, 6:32 PM
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go to www.trainingforclimbing.com
Buy his books and learn how to train.
There's other sources for learning how to train, but Horst's books are a pretty good start
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jt512
Mar 31, 2010, 6:38 PM
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gene wrote: go to www.trainingforclimbing.com Buy his books and learn how to train. There's other sources for learning how to train, but Horst's books are a pretty good start
*snort*
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climb4free
Apr 3, 2010, 7:37 PM
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Razmodius wrote: Once the weather finally decides to cooperate, I'll be able to go outside alot( 3-4times a week, 4-5 good crag in a 15min driving range)
I'm Jealous
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trixtah
Apr 4, 2010, 8:38 PM
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I finished my first 12a after just shy of 7 months of casual climbing -- how? I just kept on climbing, outdoors on weekends and in a gym a couple times during the weekdays just to boulder and pump out a few times. More importantly, I kept having fun.
Continue route climbing to build endurance and if you're really after the grade, find a 12a that suits your style. 12a moves are not very hard at all and the biggest limiting factor is pump -- if you can boulder v3/4 you should have no problems at all working the route. I don't weight train or do any other target workouts for climbing, either. I feel that when I do, I just end up working muscles that I don't need or pulling something because my ego tells me to lift heavy weights :P. Aside from that, I feel like it doesn't help my climbing, anyway.
I agree about the pyramid and logging miles, but not with going about it so systematically. I think it's important to log one of each letter at least, but if you redpoint your 11c, I'd say start working on your 12a in addition. If you're not prone to injury, skipping a few grades and working (eventually redpointing) a few harder grades will make you stronger such that you won't/shouldn't have a problem with any grades that you skipped. Good luck! 12a is attainable to anyone :)
Oh, and I feel that skipping grades between 5.9 and 5.11d may be okay, but that once you're working in the 12 range, I'm going to echo the sentiment that building a solid base is important. This is the range where you can't really rely on brute strength to make up for bad technique and doing moves efficiently is key.
(This post was edited by trixtah on Apr 4, 2010, 9:01 PM)
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jt512
Apr 5, 2010, 1:44 AM
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trixtah wrote: I agree about the pyramid and logging miles, but not with going about it so systematically. I think it's important to log one of each letter at least, but if you redpoint your 11c, I'd say start working on your 12a in addition. If you're not prone to injury, skipping a few grades and working (eventually redpointing) a few harder grades will make you stronger such that you won't/shouldn't have a problem with any grades that you skipped. Good luck! 12a is attainable to anyone :)
In other words, you actually disagree with the pyramid approach.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 5, 2010, 2:36 AM)
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trixtah
Apr 5, 2010, 1:58 AM
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Actually, I think that if anyone were to complete the pyramid on the way to 7a+, they would definitely be able to reach the grade, and easily. I also think though, that it isn't necessary to fill out the pyramids in their entirety.
(A friend of mine showed me an example of the pyramid from a Horst book, and I think we're talking about the same thing.)
(This post was edited by trixtah on Apr 5, 2010, 1:59 AM)
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