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poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 1:53 PM
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Dropping weight when you're not really out of shape
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Pertinent (perhaps) info: Boulder v6, climb 5.12. 6'2" and 175lb...I'd guess < 10% body fat. Age 31. Climbing for 6 years.

I have more muscle mass than i think necessary for hard climbing...mostly in the upper body (i have long twiggy legs). I certainly haven't been trying to get big. I do a couple (what i consider) general conditioning workouts a week in the gym, more as injury prevention than anything else, but I'm significantly bigger than most of my climbing buds...many of whom climb harder than me. I'm well aware there are pretty jacked climbers than still climb crazy hard, but I'm thinking of slimming down and seeing how that affects my climbing.

I still want to keep doing my general conditioning workouts (injury free for almost a year now!), but what the best way to do them in conjunction with a weight loss regime? Drop weight and more reps? Add a crap ton of low intensity cardio? Cut calories? All three?

I'd like to get down to 160-165 and see how that impacts my climbing...I'm sure I can lose 5 lbs in straight fat through some dedicated cardio, but the rest is prob gonna have to come from muscle, which is fine...as long as it's not from my forearms :)

thanks for any helpful suggestions...
mike


shockabuku


Apr 15, 2010, 2:20 PM
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Yer krazy.


poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 2:22 PM
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and that was super helpful...thx.


Grizvok


Apr 15, 2010, 2:46 PM
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Re: [poomasta] Dropping weight when you're not really out of shape [In reply to]
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Eat at 500 cals below maintenance daily and keep climbing if you really think you could benefit from dropping a few lbs of fat given where you are at the moment.


jomagam


Apr 15, 2010, 3:07 PM
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Along the same lines, does anyone know if you can target muscle loss ? In other words will you lose leg muscles if you go running when you're starving, or will your upper body get smaller ? Or it's all genetic/random/etc ?


karmiclimber


Apr 15, 2010, 3:09 PM
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I'm at a healthy weight too (5'5 135 lbs.) but I recently started running and doing weight watchers and I want to get down to 120, because I know climbing would be A LOT easier. So what I do is I run 3-5 miles every other day...right after I run, I get on my bike and speed cycle the same route. And I do spin class twice a week. On my weight watchers, I eat 1300 cals a day. I lost 6 lbs. in the first week Cool.


caughtinside


Apr 15, 2010, 3:12 PM
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I get a letter grade out of every 5lbs I drop without actually getting stronger. It makes a difference.

But it's too much work to actually lose a lot of weight, and I look unhealthy when I get down. I'm generally at my thinnest and fittest at the end of a trip, which is when I just want to sit on the couch and eat ice cream.


karmiclimber


Apr 15, 2010, 3:13 PM
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I dunno, but I had a PT tell me that if you smell ammonia on your breath after a workout, you are burning muscle and should have some protein.


MS1


Apr 15, 2010, 3:13 PM
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poomasta wrote:
Pertinent (perhaps) info: Boulder v6, climb 5.12. 6'2" and 175lb...I'd guess < 10% body fat. Age 31. Climbing for 6 years.

I have more muscle mass than i think necessary for hard climbing...mostly in the upper body (i have long twiggy legs). I certainly haven't been trying to get big. I do a couple (what i consider) general conditioning workouts a week in the gym, more as injury prevention than anything else, but I'm significantly bigger than most of my climbing buds...many of whom climb harder than me. I'm well aware there are pretty jacked climbers than still climb crazy hard, but I'm thinking of slimming down and seeing how that affects my climbing.

I still want to keep doing my general conditioning workouts (injury free for almost a year now!), but what the best way to do them in conjunction with a weight loss regime? Drop weight and more reps? Add a crap ton of low intensity cardio? Cut calories? All three?

I'd like to get down to 160-165 and see how that impacts my climbing...I'm sure I can lose 5 lbs in straight fat through some dedicated cardio, but the rest is prob gonna have to come from muscle, which is fine...as long as it's not from my forearms :)

thanks for any helpful suggestions...
mike

Keep a high protein amount in your diet so you don't lose muscle mass. Beyond that, reduce your net caloric intake by either eating less or exercising more. What works for me personally (and I've dropped from 240 to 160 and maintained the weight loss) is to do a lot of moderate cardio (running and long-distance cycling) in addition to climbing.

Whatever you do, it will help to count calories and monitor your weight over time. Your metabolism can do weird things, and it is easy to start eating more due to extra hunger as you burn more calories in an average week. Counting keeps you honest.


karmiclimber


Apr 15, 2010, 3:16 PM
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Righteous \M/ Something to look forward to at the end of my weight loss!


clews


Apr 15, 2010, 3:21 PM
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At 6'2 and 175 I wouldn't really try to lose much more weight. That seems like a pretty healthy weight to me... But I'm 5'10 and 175...

Sure if you want to loose some fat go for it but I don't see any way your muscles are so bulky at your stats to hinder your climbing.


colatownkid


Apr 15, 2010, 3:27 PM
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poomasta wrote:
Pertinent (perhaps) info: Boulder v6, climb 5.12. 6'2" and 175lb...I'd guess < 10% body fat. Age 31. Climbing for 6 years.

I have more muscle mass than i think necessary for hard climbing...mostly in the upper body (i have long twiggy legs). I certainly haven't been trying to get big. I do a couple (what i consider) general conditioning workouts a week in the gym, more as injury prevention than anything else, but I'm significantly bigger than most of my climbing buds...many of whom climb harder than me. I'm well aware there are pretty jacked climbers than still climb crazy hard, but I'm thinking of slimming down and seeing how that affects my climbing.

I still want to keep doing my general conditioning workouts (injury free for almost a year now!), but what the best way to do them in conjunction with a weight loss regime? Drop weight and more reps? Add a crap ton of low intensity cardio? Cut calories? All three?

I'd like to get down to 160-165 and see how that impacts my climbing...I'm sure I can lose 5 lbs in straight fat through some dedicated cardio, but the rest is prob gonna have to come from muscle, which is fine...as long as it's not from my forearms :)

thanks for any helpful suggestions...
mike

I am 6'3", 173 at the moment. I feel that you and I have pretty similar builds. That makes you one skinny dude.

I'd like to know why you think you need to lose weight. Certainly, increasing the strength-to-weight ratio could improve your climbing, or it could make you skinny to the point of being unhealthy and considerably weaker.

Speaking from personal experience, I've had my weight down to 165 and my body fat to 4%. It was scary thin and it definitely didn't help my climbing. I generally try to maintain 8% body fat and a weight of 170 to 175 (though I usually end up at 175 and 12% body fat). Any leaner than this and I start to have negative side effects.

With the level you climb at, sport-specific exercises might not be a bad idea. Do you campus board, hangboard, climb 4x4s, etc.? A training regimen that increases things on the strength side of the equation may be better for you than decreasing things on the weight side of the equation.

Also, everyone can use some work on their technique somewhere. Is technique what's holding you back? Maybe it's a head-game thing that's stopping you?

If you've decided that getting your weight down really is the key to you climbing harder, I wouldn't go much under 170. When I'm trying to get my weight down, I cut out fat from my diet as much as possible, add a few extra minutes to my run (which I do 3 to 4 days a week), and cut about 200-400 calories a day. (For me this often comes in the form of substituting water for fruit juice). You should lose 0.5 to 1 pound per week this way.


blacksheep


Apr 15, 2010, 3:57 PM
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I've found the article Fat Loss for Athletes to be helpful, as it provides a framework and specific guidance on how to approach the topic.

I'd suggest it to anyone trying to lose weight while not excessively compromising performance...


poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 4:15 PM
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I dunno...I wouldn't consider myself "skinny"...maybe compared to the American populous as a whole, but that's an inane comparison. Even the BMI scale (as meaningless as I think it is for climbers, or most athletes for that matter) doesn't peg me at the low end. I'll start with losing the 5-7 lb i know i have to spare and go from there i guess...if i see improvement in climbing performance (as mentioned above), all other things equal, I'll consider going further.

I do engage in a lot of the typical climbing / training exercises you mention...I'm a helluva lot more focused than some of my scrawny friends who never hit the gym and still climb hard. I'm just viewing this strength:weight thing as another component of climbing at a higher level. I've seen plenty of stick-thin folks pulling down hard, but far fewer climbing at that level with a more traditional athletic build. i'd much rather tick a 13 than look good pool-side...just sayin.


shockabuku


Apr 15, 2010, 4:24 PM
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I weigh 5-10 lbs more than you. I'm 5 inches shorter, 12 years older, and climb almost as hard as you. I don't think losing weight is the solution to your "problem".


colatownkid


Apr 15, 2010, 4:33 PM
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Fair enough. I just know what happens to me when I overdo the weight loss or lose it too quickly and the crash that happens isn't pretty. Just make sure you lose the weight slowly and safely and give yourself rest days when you need it. And seriously, don't get below 5 or 6% body fat. 4% is critically low and 1% buffer wouldn't hurt.


hafilax


Apr 15, 2010, 4:52 PM
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For you goals I think that trying to lose weight will be a lot of hard work for minimal gains and possible losses especially in general health. You don't really have any control over where your body loses mass (other than fat versus muscle) and if your body starts consuming muscle it could be detrimental to your climbing.

I think that focusing on training will yield better gains.


poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 4:55 PM
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blacksheep wrote:
I've found the article Fat Loss for Athletes to be helpful, as it provides a framework and specific guidance on how to approach the topic.

I'd suggest it to anyone trying to lose weight while not excessively compromising performance...

thanks...interesting article with some reasonable advice. it addresses one of my concerns about losing max strength. lift at reduced volume, but maintain the intensity (weight).


poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 4:58 PM
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shockabuku wrote:
I weigh 5-10 lbs more than you. I'm 5 inches shorter, 12 years older, and climb almost as hard as you. I don't think losing weight is the solution to your "problem".

...and you don't think you would climb harder if you lost some pounds?!?


shockabuku


Apr 15, 2010, 5:05 PM
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poomasta wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
I weigh 5-10 lbs more than you. I'm 5 inches shorter, 12 years older, and climb almost as hard as you. I don't think losing weight is the solution to your "problem".

...and you don't think you would climb harder if you lost some pounds?!?

I think I probably would. At 6'2", 175 though I don't think it would help much. I could lose about 10 lbs if I worked on it pretty diligently but it's not worth my quality of life. I realize that's a personal call.


jt512


Apr 15, 2010, 6:15 PM
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blacksheep wrote:
I've found the article Fat Loss for Athletes to be helpful, as it provides a framework and specific guidance on how to approach the topic.

Oy, that guy is wordy. You might want to consider this.

Jay


Partner angry


Apr 15, 2010, 6:15 PM
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You might be too old to recover from this but you need to drop all your weight, get up off your death bed, and start rebuilding from scratch.

Really, there are three options.

1. The Lance Armstrong method, get cancer (cancer isn't necessary but chemo is). Once recovered only train the specific needs for your routes.

2. Heroin addiction. This one is fairly easy I hear. Shoot up, party like a rock star, vomit a lot, sleep in some rain gutters, blow a hobo to share his junk. Rehab, start climbing, and maybe even write an inspirational novel about the journey. Try not to get any diseases and don't inject any bubbles/rat poison.

3. Anorexia/Bulimia, not just for women anymore. Don't eat and vomit all the time. You look so fat, you're so fat, why aren't you skinny like all your friends, you are so fat.


You're welcome.


poomasta


Apr 15, 2010, 6:47 PM
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Jay - thanks for that write up. I remember reading a few years ago you dropped some poundage with good results in your climbing (in addition to an increased emphasis on training). I'll focus on keeping the protein up...haven't been good about that in the past when i've dropped weight.

If all else fails, I guess Angry's got some pretty effective solutions...


blurricus


Apr 16, 2010, 8:52 AM
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jomagam wrote:
Along the same lines, does anyone know if you can target muscle loss ? In other words will you lose leg muscles if you go running when you're starving, or will your upper body get smaller ? Or it's all genetic/random/etc ?

When you starve your body, and it begins to eat at the muscles, it is wise enough to eat at the muscles that you don't use as often. So, running would NOT target the legs, as your body would know you're using them.

My suggestion? Don't lose weight. I don't really believe much in the climb-to-weight ratio thing, nor do I think losing weight at your level is healthy, as I am also 6'2", 170lbs, 7.3% body fat. I know that I'm at about as low as I'm comfortable being. You may just need to change your climbing style. Try doing something else for a while. Bouldering or leading or tradding, or whatever. Change it up a bit.


Adk


Apr 16, 2010, 9:25 AM
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This won't help your climbing but it will help the girls you attract.

Don't lose any more weight. At 165 and at 6'2" a stiff wind will blow you over and chicks don't dig it when they are talking to you one minute and then you disappear the next.Tongue

No matter how much weight you lose you still may not be able to get better. There is a limit to everyones abilities. Maybe you are close to yours.

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