Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Trad Climbing:
WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Trad Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


cush


Apr 7, 2010, 6:56 PM
Post #1 of 19 (9627 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2008
Posts: 320

WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i've played around roped soloing with a friend's set up but am looking into purchasing my own gear. i'm thinking about using a petzl basic and a WC ropeman on two seperate lines. i've looked at the specs for both these items and i don't see why it would be unsafe but if i'm missing something please let me know.


caughtinside


Apr 7, 2010, 8:00 PM
Post #2 of 19 (9603 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30451

Re: [cush] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i use the ropeman to back up my protraxion, works great. I run both devices on the same line.


Hodge


Apr 7, 2010, 10:12 PM
Post #3 of 19 (9572 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 7, 2010
Posts: 4

Re: [cush] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I use the rope man to back up my soloist, it works great to, a good way to go I think. Just remember there is many ways to do something, a lot of things work and as long as your safe about it and have the experience, because in the end your by your self (rope soloing). Just check you system for a fall befor you go out and climb.
In reply to:


(This post was edited by Hodge on Apr 7, 2010, 10:16 PM)


Partner xtrmecat


Apr 8, 2010, 2:25 PM
Post #4 of 19 (9490 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Why would anyone use a device not made for soloing to solo?

The instructions for the ropeman clearly say no-no. See warning.
http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/dnlds/Ropeman%20fit%20to%20page%20print%20page%201.pdf

And the basic is a toothed device that also has instructions that indicate you will have chop chop issues if loading the rope from anything more than an easy soft loading.

http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Sport/B18_basic_B185000J.pdf

What is wrong with getting a device made for soloing? Your life must surely be worth the couple extra $$$. Do not proceed to the realm of solo, as asking about equipment uses for life support on the inturdnet without even looking around first screams that you are not even close to ready.


Bob


Hodge


Apr 8, 2010, 4:45 PM
Post #5 of 19 (9473 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 7, 2010
Posts: 4

Re: [xtrmecat] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I am not saying using the ropeman as a main device, I said i use it as a back up, all soloing devices that I have looked at and have read about say you should be a master at rigging and you should allways use a back up. If I take a fall rope soloing and my Soloist fails, the ropeman catches me and shreds my rope, in that case I will go buy a new rope.
In reply to:


viciado


Apr 11, 2010, 9:51 AM
Post #6 of 19 (9400 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 9, 2003
Posts: 414

Re: [cush] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm not sure I am following correctly. Are you talking about ground up roped solo or fixed line rope solo? In the case of the former, there are many reasons to consider other options. A search on this site will turn up several serious accidents involving falls onto toothed devices. Also, as mentioned above, the ropeman is counter indicated by the manufacturer for this appilcation. The basic does fine for fixed rope solo as long as it is rigged properly.


moose_droppings


Apr 11, 2010, 9:59 AM
Post #7 of 19 (9396 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3360

Re: [viciado] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about top rope soloing.

When someone says "roped soloing" I picture ground up leading solo. The title of this thread is misleading to me too.


Partner xtrmecat


Apr 12, 2010, 9:17 AM
Post #8 of 19 (9353 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hodge, no offense intended. Why use a piece of gear when a knott will do. Extra unneeded gear in the system. Especially a piece of gear that can chop your rope? Makes less than no sense to me, especially when there are methods much safer.

Bob


Hodge


Apr 12, 2010, 2:25 PM
Post #9 of 19 (9311 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 7, 2010
Posts: 4

Re: [xtrmecat] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I am talking about ground up. I flake my rope in my pack, build a inverted anchor and start climbing and placing pro. then at 30m I put a knot or pruskit to take up all the rope drag then at 60m drop another rope and rap down and clean, then I climb or use the assender to go back up. That is how I do it, I am shure there is a better way, but I havent mesed up any ropes, gear, or my self, so I must be doing some thing right.


shockabuku


Apr 12, 2010, 2:54 PM
Post #10 of 19 (9298 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4864

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hodge wrote:
I am talking about ground up. I flake my rope in my pack, build a inverted anchor and start climbing and placing pro. then at 30m I put a knot or pruskit to take up all the rope drag then at 60m drop another rope and rap down and clean, then I climb or use the assender to go back up. That is how I do it, I am shure there is a better way, but I havent mesed up any ropes, gear, or my self, so I must be doing some thing right.

It seems to me you're either foolish or brave to use an ascender for a (lead) rope solo. I would (and did) invest in a piece of gear made for leading to do such stuff.


Hodge


Apr 12, 2010, 5:17 PM
Post #11 of 19 (9271 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 7, 2010
Posts: 4

Re: [shockabuku] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I done trying to explane this I dont use the fing assender for lead i use a soloist, look up a soloist. Its a neet tool for soloing.


bennydh


Apr 12, 2010, 5:33 PM
Post #12 of 19 (9264 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 1, 2005
Posts: 368

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hodge wrote:
I done trying to explane this I dont use the fing assender for lead i use a soloist, look up a soloist. Its a neet tool for soloing.

Actually, you just done started splaining. R-tard!

If you had done a better job explaining your methods of solo-climbing from the get go, everyone here wouldn't think you are an ass hat who just became hyper defensive.

People were willing to give you honest, good advice, and simply didn't understand your methods because they were poorly explained.

This is more help than is usually provided for fucktards on this forum. I can't imagine anyone would really want to help you now.

I'll bet the best advice from here on out that you will get is, "splat".


TheRucat


Apr 12, 2010, 8:11 PM
Post #13 of 19 (9220 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 20, 2008
Posts: 234

Re: [bennydh] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

bennydh wrote:
Hodge wrote:
I done trying to explane this I dont use the fing assender for lead i use a soloist, look up a soloist. Its a neet tool for soloing.

Actually, you just done started splaining. R-tard!

If you had done a better job explaining your methods of solo-climbing from the get go, everyone here wouldn't think you are an ass hat who just became hyper defensive.

People were willing to give you honest, good advice, and simply didn't understand your methods because they were poorly explained.

This is more help than is usually provided for fucktards on this forum. I can't imagine anyone would really want to help you now.

I'll bet the best advice from here on out that you will get is, "splat".

This wasn't clear enough for you?

Hodge wrote:
I use the rope man to back up my soloist,


moose_droppings


Apr 12, 2010, 8:54 PM
Post #14 of 19 (9219 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3360

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hodge wrote:
I done trying to explane this I dont use the fing assender for lead i use a soloist, look up a soloist. Its a neet tool for soloing.

I don't blame you at all.
They don't need to look up a Soloist, they just need to look up thread and reread it.
Seems they can't follow who posted what.


shockabuku


Apr 12, 2010, 9:17 PM
Post #15 of 19 (9213 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4864

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hodge wrote:
I done trying to explane this I dont use the fing assender for lead i use a soloist, look up a soloist. Its a neet tool for soloing.

Now I'm really confused.

What's an ass-ender? Is that some kind of anal sex toy?


anthonymason


Apr 12, 2010, 9:45 PM
Post #16 of 19 (9209 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 10, 2006
Posts: 116

Re: [Hodge] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Go out and buy a Silent Partner, I use it for ground up ascents. It works great with ropes up to 11mm but I have found that a 10.2-10.5 works the best.
When I am climbing a inverted convoluted route I will sometimes use a grigri and a clove to surrmount the crux of the roof wierd off angled crack etc, but when the route starts going vertical I will re-tie into the SP. Remember to back tie the rope so if you do fall it won't be a 80 foot whipper.
As for solo top roping I rig a secondary rope and use the SP and my main line and use a rescuecender(petzl) and the 2nd line, the main reason for this, is to arrest my fall fast, when using a Silent Partner it takes speed to lock up the mechanism and if you are near the ground you will deck before it locks up.
Overall the SP is the finest solo device I have ever used and it is the only device I know of that can be worn on a swami, where as the soloist etc, has to be worn with a chest harness and god forbid you invert while falling, it'l keep feeding rope until you either re-invert or run out of rope or!!! DECK either way that would suck......... So if you want to make you're life simple and can afford the $250 go out and get yourself a Silent Partner(Wren Industries).
Good luck


punk_rocker333


Apr 27, 2010, 9:15 AM
Post #17 of 19 (8977 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387

Re: [anthonymason] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you're talking TR solo, you might consider the Ushba Basic Ascender. It's similar to the Petzl minitraxion but has no teeth. Mountain Tools even reccomends it as a TR solo device and briefly explains how to use it as such:

http://www.mtntools.com/...hbabasicascender.htm

It works fine if the rope is weighted from below, but it's nice to use a sling as a chest harness as it keeps the ascender upright, which lessens your fall distance slightly and keeps it from bouncing against your junk while you climb.


(This post was edited by punk_rocker333 on Apr 27, 2010, 9:17 AM)


punk_rocker333


Apr 27, 2010, 9:40 AM
Post #18 of 19 (8966 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 9, 2004
Posts: 387

Re: [punk_rocker333] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I also looked through some older threads on the Ushba and found a really good one with safety considerations for the Ushba, and for TR soloing in general. It can be found here http://www.rockclimbing.com/...0ascender%20;#707591

tumbleweed wrote:
I read the articles referred to here several weeks ago, and agonized over having to give up my new-found love of TR soloing... But soon realized after reading the specifics of the testing methods that I needn't worry. Here's why. When climbing ANYTHING with ANY TYPE GEAR under ANY METHOD (sport/trad leading, TR belaying, TR soloing etc) you MUST be considerate of the loads you will put on EACH PIECE of your gear at ANY POINT in your system. You want to limit your fall distance as much as possible to prevent undue stress on your protection/gear/body. This applies to the above mentioned testing, as the testers eluded to.

I've seen several people (on ice and rock) attach their USHBA to a locker, and the locker to their belay loop. As they climb, the device slides along the rope but hangs below their crotch, close to mid-thigh level, because the locker dangles from the bottom of the belay loop, and the Ushba dangles below the locker. When they fall, the USHBA does not move on the rope, but in order to catch the fall, 4 things happen. 1) as you fall past the Ushba, the locker slides from the bottom of your belay loop to the top (about 6 inches by the time you consider a 4 inch belay loop plus harness expansion, etc), 2) the locker must reverse it's direction as it catches on the top of the belay loop (goes from hanging at the bottom of the belay loop to catching at the top and pointing up) (about 6 inches), 3) the Ushba must rotate to lock (again it doesn't move on the rope, but rotates on the rope) (rotation results in a loss of about 2 inches in my experience), and 4) the rope stretches, dependent on the amount out, percent of rope stretch (varies by manufacturer), and age of the rope. If a fall occurs, the body falls a MINIMUM of 14 inches.

Will this distance damage the Ushba / rope? I haven't seen it happen yet, even with a 180#-plus guy falling well OVER 14 inches before it caught him. But it is best to limit the fall factor if possible, and here is how I do it:

I use a zip-tie to secure the locker to the top of my belay loop. I clip the locker in, pull it straight up, and then wrap a zip tie horizontally around the belay loop just below the locker to keep it at the top of the belay loop. This accomplishes 2 things: 1) the locker doesn't have to slide up the belay loop before it catches me, because it is already held at the top, and 2) if it is snug enough, the locker never inverts. At worst, it lies horizontally toward the Ushba (instead of pointing down toward the Ushba). So I fall about 5 inches (minimum) (locker rotation from horizontal to pointing up, and 2 inches with rotation of the Ushba). That's 9 less inches for my falling body mass to build energy to transfer to the system. This minimizes the fall factor, thus minimizing damaging the device or rope.

So... we can't change rope stretch (#4) or the amount the Ushba rotates on the rope (#3), but we can affect #2 and #1.

As with any statistic, in order to use the results correctly, one must understand ALL of the aspects of the research methods utilized (and those not utilized) and know what the applications were intended for. Read the Lyon's report (link above) for yourself. The Ushba was not tested as an "ascender" but as a "backup device" (something to arrest a significant fall) Our fall of 14 inches (or much less, say 5 inches) compared to over 72 inches (Lyon's testing used a one meter lanyard with 220 pounds dropped on it (!) equals a 2 meter fall, over 6 feet!!!) which is a long way to fall on any device. And 3 out of 4 ropes used in testing were considered "low stretch", and only one dynamic. So does this British study, although very well executed, apply to TR soloing? Not in my mind, if rigged properly.

If you are new to TR soloing, or want to try it, talk to people that do it, and watch them. Additionally, there are at least 4 considerations as a TR soloer you must attend to:
1) besides assuring a sound redundant anchor system with no extensions, you must protect your rope at the top. If it runs over any edge that isn't perfectly round and smooth, protect it. Sometimes I use my truck floor mat.
2) you MUST weight the rope at the bottom with something to keep the rope below you from being pulled up as you climb. Some people duct tape a rock to a sling and clip this into a knot at the bottom of the climb. I use my rope bag with the rest of the rope secured inside, tied off about 2 1/2 ft above the ground.
3) always test your self belay device by weighting it before you begin climbing to assure it is oriented correctly and locks up.
4) climbing alone, there is no one to double check your setup, harness, etc. TRIPLE check your stuff, starting from one end and going to the other.

People ask me: How can you trust just one piece of gear? Well, we do it all the time belaying with one GriGri or ATC.
How can you trust just one carabiner? We do it all the time belaying with a GriGri or ATC.
I love it because I never have to worry about my belayer being inattentive... the Ushba is always right in front of me.
And actually, I am a social climber, it's just that sometimes my climbing partners can't go. Now they're annoyed with me for getting more climbing time in than they are!


(This post was edited by punk_rocker333 on Apr 27, 2010, 9:44 AM)


dugl33


Apr 27, 2010, 10:18 AM
Post #19 of 19 (8944 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [cush] WC ropeman/petzl basic combo for roped soloing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This is the so called "Yosemite Method" tor TR self belay. (not to be used for leading, duh) Picture borrowed from the SuperTopo Forum.

The chest slings keep the upper minitraxion up high so you weight it rather quickly rather than take a fall on it.



Use the second independent rope to tie back up knots.

One other thing I like to do sometimes is put a screamer on the anchors master point, tie the fixed line (minitraxion side) to the screamer with a clove hitch, and then put a "pooch" of slack in the rope, tying a figure eight with two lockers directly to the master point.

Petzl documentation shows rope shred at around 850 lbs of load, (if memory serves), so I figure the screamer acts as a sort of circuit breaker, hopefully keeping the load at the anchor, and the minitraxion to around 550 lbs of peak load, which would be below typical rope shred forces. (Use the fattest rope in your quiver)

I figure this is also a tell-tale... if you are activating the screamer with your top rope hangs something ain't right; you're letting slack develop somehow, or maybe you're a fatty. (A recent discussion here pointed out a factor 0 hang on the rope results in a temporary load surge of 2 x weight.)

You could also use a croll and a minitraxion, or some other combo of devices. Main thing is just have a back-up line and don't let slack develop in your primary set up.
Attachments: minitraxion.jpg (96.0 KB)


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Trad Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook